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Okay so it came up in my game yesterday.

I had a Necron Lord in my Lychguard squad

all the lychguard died but the necron lord lived, does that mean the lychguard are allowed to roll for reanimation? since the necron lord is technically part of that squad being the leader and has reanimation protocol

according to the FAQ if the whole squad is wiped out only the necron lord gets to roll to come back since he has ever living

The rules for reanimation protocols say they can't, the lord is not sufficient. the rule says characters do not count as part of the unit specificly for reanimation protocols and the lords and crypteks are infantry(character).

thank you, does that include independent characters as well?

I believe it just says, "characters." If my memory is correct, then that would apply to IC's since they are just another type of Character.

thank you, i dont get why they would add reanimation protocol to the royal court or any IC, other then saying they have to rejoin the squad? which we would have a lot less confusion if they just included that into ever living which it does

If the squad dies the models with everliving can still attempt to get back up, unless they are swept then it seems they stay dead.

If the Lord counts as part of the unit when joined and is himself (when he is the sole survivor of an Immortal or Warrior squad) scoring, why would his survival mean the Lychguard do not get to roll?

I assume you are talking about the Non IC variety? As far as I know there are two types of characters - Upgrade Characters and Independent Characters. The Lord is neither an upgrade nor an independent character, which means the unit can roll for Reanimation protocols.

Right, we need to know more about the Lord.

If he's a royal court member attached to the squad, he counts as a squad member for all purposes - meaning that ALL members of the squad that were casualties may make their Reanimation Protocol roll if he's still alive.

If he's an IC, ie, Destroyer Lord, Overlord, or "named" HQ dude, he doesn't count as a squad member - and when the rest of the squad are casualties, they can't roll.

The rules specifically say that if a character is the only surviving member of a unit then the rest of the unit doesn't get to roll for RP.

calypso2ts wrote:If the Lord counts as part of the unit when joined and is himself (when he is the sole survivor of an Immortal or Warrior squad) scoring, why would his survival mean the Lychguard do not get to roll?

I assume you are talking about the Non IC variety? As far as I know there are two types of characters - Upgrade Characters and Independent Characters. The Lord is neither an upgrade nor an independent character, which means the unit can roll for Reanimation protocols.

The lord IS a character, as stated in his profile. That's all that matters. Since the rules for RP state that characters do not count for RP for the squad, they cannot roll for it using him as their come back member.

Randall Turner wrote:Right, we need to know more about the Lord.

If he's a royal court member attached to the squad, he counts as a squad member for all purposes - meaning that ALL members of the squad that were casualties may make their Reanimation Protocol roll if he's still alive.

If he's an IC, ie, Destroyer Lord, Overlord, or "named" HQ dude, he doesn't count as a squad member - and when the rest of the squad are casualties, they can't roll.

This also doesn't matter in the differentiation between Overlord and Lord (as if you look at the book, the Royal Court is technically an HQ as well) but they are ALL "characters". INDEPENDENT CHARACTER is a rule, CHARACTER is a type. There is a difference, and since all the HQ choices are Characters and only SOME have the IC rule, they ALL disallow RP for a unit when they are the last member standing regardless to how they joined the unit.

Kevin and copper, are you sure about a court member? I'm re-reading the rule the same as you as well as the Necron FAQ, and I read it the way you do, it's pretty plain - but then why would I be playing it the other way? Something made me think the court member qualified as a remaining squad member. Something (And now I can't remember what, forgive me for a senior moment here) had reinforced in my mind that the court member counted as a squaddie for basically *everything*.

Randall Turner wrote:Kevin and copper, are you sure about a court member? I'm re-reading the rule the same as you as well as the Necron FAQ, and I read it the way you do, it's pretty plain - but then why would I be playing it the other way? Something made me think the court member qualified as a remaining squad member. Something (And now I can't remember what, forgive me for a senior moment here) had reinforced in my mind that the court member counted as a squaddie for basically *everything*.

The INAT FAQ allows the Ghot Ark to repair royal court 'leaders'. Probably what you are thinking of. With RP, raw is clear by the codex entry.

I think it was impressions garnered from a thread on this forum, might have been Ghost Ark discussion. <shrug> Well, it hadn't come up in a game yet for me, but I would have played it wrong in good faith. And I do remember times where I'd been thinking, "just need this one guy alive". Thanks for the reality check!

OK so a lord and a cryptek leave the royal court and become part of the squad, unlike IC they cant be targeted in combat since they act just like a SM sergeant does in his squad .

they cant be a KP on there own since they are part of that squad they cant be a KP if they are part o the royal court unless the whole court is dead .

so what i am reading here is this

A member of the royal court that joins a unit of warriors immortals and so forth counts as part of that squad for every purpose except if the squad is wiped out bar the royal court member you get a KP for killing the squad, and a model, that cant act alone now all of a sudden becomes a single KP aka and IC.

Please explain to me when an SM unit is wiped out bar the sergeant do you get a KP for his unit then another for the sergeant

So when a lord or cryptek is left standing and the rest of his unit( that he is part of and counts as part of for every purpose) have been killed why would that unit not get there RP?

If everyone was killed only the EL would get his roll but the unit would still be in play and no KP given till he died(unless he failed his EL roll) ,as he is still part of the unit the only reason they don't get there RP in this instance is because everyone was dead at the time they would have taken there roll.

Crypteks/lords don't become ICs after their unit dies. Just like a SM sergent doesn't become an IC after his unit dies.
And reread the RP&EL rules. They specifically cover what happens to RP counters when only a cryptek/lord survives.

copper.talos wrote:Crypteks/lords don't become ICs after their unit dies. Just like a SM sergent doesn't become an IC after his unit dies.
And reread the RP&EL rules. They specifically cover what happens to RP counters when only a cryptek/lord survives.

Point conceded

But it still leaves the argument that 2 KP would be given for the unit and the lord when since the lord is part of the unit until he dies as well no KP can be awarded and then only 1

He is part of the unit until he dies permanently. That means that if only a lord survives of a warrior unit, then that warrior unit still exists and it won't give a KP until that lord dies permanently too.

If it gets confusing just think the cryptek/lord as a sergeant with the ability to return to play as if they never left it in the first place...

Kevin949 wrote:This also doesn't matter in the differentiation between Overlord and Lord (as if you look at the book, the Royal Court is technically an HQ as well) but they are ALL "characters". INDEPENDENT CHARACTER is a rule, CHARACTER is a type. There is a difference, and since all the HQ choices are Characters and only SOME have the IC rule, they ALL disallow RP for a unit when they are the last member standing regardless to how they joined the unit.

Well you are partially right because as your said an independent character is a special rule and that's not a type, as the RP rules say a CHARACTER is not sufficient for a squad rolling for RP but if the HQ was the last one alive then I think he is sufficient since he is not a CHARACTER, rather an INDEPENDENT CHARACTER is an infantry with a special rule but it doesnt change his type to "CHARACTER" he is just infantry and he is part of the unit.

As for killpoints the royal court leading a squad are not an extra kill point, they are just a squad leader

snakel wrote:Point conceded

But it still leaves the argument that 2 KP would be given for the unit and the lord when since the lord is part of the unit until he dies as well no KP can be awarded and then only 1

thats not really an argument since they royal court is just leading the squad as a leader so he is part of the unit for all intents and purposes of KP

The rulebook lists IC as a subset of character on page 47 of the BRB, so they still are not sufficient to allow RP rolls.

Ub3rb3n wrote: he is not a CHARACTER, rather an INDEPENDENT CHARACTER

Incorrect. IC is just a type of character. See BGB pg 47.

Ub3rb3n wrote:Well you are partially right because as your said an independent character is a special rule and that's not a type, as the RP rules say a CHARACTER is not sufficient for a squad rolling for RP but if the HQ was the last one alive then I think he is sufficient since he is not a CHARACTER, rather an INDEPENDENT CHARACTER is an infantry with a special rule but it doesnt change his type to "CHARACTER" he is just infantry and he is part of the unit.

Re-read page 47 of the BRB.

Edit: Lordhat beat me to it.

Ub3rb3n wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:This also doesn't matter in the differentiation between Overlord and Lord (as if you look at the book, the Royal Court is technically an HQ as well) but they are ALL "characters". INDEPENDENT CHARACTER is a rule, CHARACTER is a type. There is a difference, and since all the HQ choices are Characters and only SOME have the IC rule, they ALL disallow RP for a unit when they are the last member standing regardless to how they joined the unit.

Well you are partially right because as your said an independent character is a special rule and that's not a type, as the RP rules say a CHARACTER is not sufficient for a squad rolling for RP but if the HQ was the last one alive then I think he is sufficient since he is not a CHARACTER, rather an INDEPENDENT CHARACTER is an infantry with a special rule but it doesnt change his type to "CHARACTER" he is just infantry and he is part of the unit.

Actually if you look in the necron codex, all the HQ's have (Character) in their profile.

Characters cant make dead squads stand up. Its pretty clearly written. Also, as for the Character/IC thing, for about 2 weeks I thought ALL the HQs were just characters without the IC rule, because i was looking in the wrong spot. So yes, they are all characters. They all cannot make that 10 man lychguard squad stand up. If you want to preserve that lychguard squad, put a couple of wounds on the lord and hope your res orb brings him back on a 4 5 6.