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HQ - Librarian - Jump Pack, Fear/Shield - 125

Elite - 5x Sternguard, 2x Lascannons, 2x Combi-meltas - 165

Elite - 5x Sternguard, 2x Lascannons, 2x Combi-meltas - 165

Heavy - 5x Devastators - 4x Missile Launchers - 130

Heavy - 5x Devastators - 4x Plasma Cannons - 150

Heavy - Storm Raven - 200

Troop - 5x Assault Marines, Las/Plas Razorback, Meltagun, Power Weapon - 180

Troop - 5x Assault Marines, Las/Plas Razorback, Meltagun, Power Weapon - 180

Elite - 2x Sanguinary Priests - 100

Troop - 5x Assault Marines - Jump Packs, Flamer - 105

Total - 1500 Points

So this is a list i came up with last night when I discovered that Sternguard units can take heavy weapons. I said to myself "can i make a space marine army that shoots on par with tau or imperial guard?" And while i admit this is no basilisk/vendetta list I think it has lots of potential at 1500 points. I will playtest it in my local group but I wanted some input here first. My idea for formation is Storm Raven with libby in the middle (casting shield), sternguard on either sides of the raven, followed by razorbacks (with priests inside) and devastators on the flanks of the spearhead. Thereby every foot model benefits from FNP granted by the s priests inside the razorbacks, and the raven is close enough to the razors to give them cover with shield of sanguinius.


Please, critique away. I will post results of how i did in this thread if/when i get a chance to try the list out in a real game.

INteresting list.

I'm also considering dropping the 2 s. priests and instead giving each sternguard squad a rhino to fire out of. FNP is less important when you're inside a sturdy metal box.

I think you are on the right track with removing the priests. You do not have enough bodies to make em worth it.

Also the Raven feels out of place. I never have any luck with the bloodstrikes. I wonder if more troops or beefing up your counterstrike unit would'nt be a better use of points.

Drop the raven and add in a 4x plasma honour guard in a rhino. It's less of a target and you can still get good coverage with it.

I agree with dropping the priests for another metal box. You can also drop the jp on the libby, the meltas and pw on the assault squads (you want them sitting in their box, a 5 man squad is a liability) get another razorback for the other 5 man squad. In fact you might have enough for 2 razors with everyhting else being dropped.

The list is interesting, I'd like to see how it plays

I would get some sniper scouts, as you have units at the back they can claim an objective and hang out with the others.

I am not sure about the mech. I think I would rather have jump packers. Maybe scouts to have scoring then honour guard as mobile shooting force, else even some bikes.

Instead of Assault marines I would have tactical squads maybe 1 assault squad to help hold the line but tactical squads have much better shooting capability. But a very interesting list.

The Stomraven is an odd choice. They aren't very good gunboats, and the lack of other armor isn't helping. I don't like the Razorbacks for the same reason; they're too fragile and give the enemy's Lascannons something to shoot.

Agree with getting some rhinos for the sternguard, they are a weird unit, but I could see how they would work IF you had rhinos for them.

Dunwich wrote:Agree with getting some rhinos for the sternguard, they are a weird unit, but I could see how they would work IF you had rhinos for them.

Surely the dev. squads are not in rhino and are in the open as well. Sternguard need to be still, at the back and have a non shaken vehicle to be able to shoot. The rhino sounds like another kill point.

Part of playing this list (in my head at least) also involves proper placement and target priority. Yes there are only 3 vehicles listed (which might drop to two or increase to 5 depending on the rhino/storm raven situation) but with all the lascannons and missiles I can potentially destroy or stunlock enemy tanks to keep my own alive, plus shield of sanguinius for some extra defense.

The storm raven isn't bad as a gunboat, or a delivery system for assault units. The idea here is to hang back and deliver a turn one payload of bloodstrikes on one target and a multi-melta at another (if range applies...if not i can always toss one bloodstrike out for a hail mary shot). Using shield and placement to help dictate the enemy what they can most easily shoot at, hopefully the SR survives to turn two, wherein I turbo-boost towards the enemy and PotMS a multi-melta at something nearby. now it has a 4+ cover save and a flamer assault squad + librarian inside, so If the raven dies then I can get out and assault if needed.

This is all speculation and conjecture at this point, and I would be lying if i said I didn't build this list because of my sternguard 'discovery'. I'm going to give it a go on Saturday vs one of my local opponents. I'll do the recap here afterwards.

If you're looking for a gunline list, I'd have all of the devastators with the same range.

I'm personally pretty fond of the 3 missile launcher/1 lascannon devastator squad, as a BS5 lascannon isn't anything to sneeze at.

Rhinos only have one fire point, so having the sternguard sit inside it with 2 lascannons is kind of a waste of points - since only one will be able to fire per turn. What I would do is increase them to 6 models and give them a las/plas razorback instead - then hide 4 models behind the razor and leave the 2 lascannons out - so they still get the 4++ cover save for having half or more in cover.

A stationary Stormraven is just a sitting duck - almost literally. You need the flat-out cover save in order for it to stay alive past the first turn - one solution would be to just have it bounce 24" back and forth along your deployment zone so it still gets the flat-out save, and can PotMS something. I'd also try to squeeze points out somewhere to get a typhoon missile launcher on it. That way when you flat-out toward the opponent you can pop off 2 frag missiles plus one of the main weapon systems.

I also agree - interesting list. I might try playing it myself!

Chesh wrote:If you're looking for a gunline list, I'd have all of the devastators with the same range.

I'm personally pretty fond of the 3 missile launcher/1 lascannon devastator squad, as a BS5 lascannon isn't anything to sneeze at.

Rhinos only have one fire point, so having the sternguard sit inside it with 2 lascannons is kind of a waste of points - since only one will be able to fire per turn. What I would do is increase them to 6 models and give them a las/plas razorback instead - then hide 4 models behind the razor and leave the 2 lascannons out - so they still get the 4++ cover save for having half or more in cover.

A stationary Stormraven is just a sitting duck - almost literally. You need the flat-out cover save in order for it to stay alive past the first turn - one solution would be to just have it bounce 24" back and forth along your deployment zone so it still gets the flat-out save, and can PotMS something. I'd also try to squeeze points out somewhere to get a typhoon missile launcher on it. That way when you flat-out toward the opponent you can pop off 2 frag missiles plus one of the main weapon systems.

I also agree - interesting list. I might try playing it myself!

You have a couple of key things mistaken here -

1.) 2 models may fire from a rhino's hatch, not 1.
2.) The dev squads are mostly constructed b/c those are the models I have. However don't discount the s7 ap2 blast x4 in the plasma devs - that will mulch heavy infantry and light transports too sometimes
3.) the 'sitting duck' raven still gets a 5+ cover from shield of sanguinius
4.) Turbo-boosting only nets 1 weapon system from PotMS. Defensive weapons may not fire if the vehicle travels faster than 12".

Man, I really need to start bringing at least my mini-BRB to work. I do make mistakes sometimes, usually when dealing with units I don't normally bother with (like Rhinos).

Rhinos have 1 fire point, according to Army Builder - doesn't that only allow a single model to shoot out of it?

I'm not discounting the plasma cannon devs, just saying that if you're running a gun line you generally want to get all of the models possible to have the same range. That way you concentrate more fire for a longer time.

I'm not discounting the 5+ cover from shield - just saying, 4+ is better.

I'm also pretty sure that you can fire all defensive weapons no matter how far you move. Frag missiles count as defensive weapons, being S4.

Chesh wrote:Man, I really need to start bringing at least my mini-BRB to work. I do make mistakes sometimes, usually when dealing with units I don't normally bother with (like Rhinos).

Rhinos have 1 fire point, according to Army Builder - doesn't that only allow a single model to shoot out of it?

I'm not discounting the plasma cannon devs, just saying that if you're running a gun line you generally want to get all of the models possible to have the same range. That way you concentrate more fire for a longer time.

I'm not discounting the 5+ cover from shield - just saying, 4+ is better.

I'm also pretty sure that you can fire all defensive weapons no matter how far you move. Frag missiles count as defensive weapons, being S4.

Read the codex under rhino and under PotMS. Then reply to threads. Rather than admit to not reading, say you are pretty sure or you do not really bother with them.

Peace out
Love Fletch, this is not just wine talking - Much love, enjoy your bed time reading.

Will do, but I still post mainly from work.

tetrisphreak wrote:. I said to myself "can i make a space marine army that shoots on par with tau or imperial guard?"

Yes you can - although this isn't the list to do it, nor is it the codex. BA advantages are - Fast tanks and survivable troops outside of metal boxes with FNP, which lends itself more to a short range shooty list - think melta and flamers

C:SM, SW, and BT can all do a better ranged shooty list without having to pay a fast tax on their tanks

eg a rough SW list at 1500

Rune Priest
6 lots of 5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun, Las/Plas Razorbacks
3 lots of 5 Long Fangs with Missile Launchersx4, Heavy Bolter Razorbacks

Never likely to happen in game, but if firing at maximum potentional :-

6x S9 AP2
6x S8 AP1 (Melta)
12xS8 AP3
12x S7 AP2
9x S5 AP4 (Twin Linked)
48x S4 AP5

Bartali wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:. I said to myself "can i make a space marine army that shoots on par with tau or imperial guard?"

Yes you can - although this isn't the list to do it, nor is it the codex. BA advantages are - Fast tanks and survivable troops outside of metal boxes with FNP, which lends itself more to a short range shooty list - think melta and flamers

C:SM, SW, and BT can all do a better ranged shooty list without having to pay a fast tax on their tanks

eg a rough SW list at 1500

Rune Priest
6 lots of 5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun, Las/Plas Razorbacks
3 lots of 5 Long Fangs with Missile Launchersx4, Heavy Bolter Razorbacks

Never likely to happen in game, but if firing at maximum potentional :-

6x S9 AP2
6x S8 AP1 (Melta)
12xS8 AP3
12x S7 AP2
9x S5 AP4 (Twin Linked)
48x S4 AP5

I fully agree - More shots, and just as many CC attacks with more foot models when the need comes, plus counter-attack. I love space wolves. However I traded about 3k of them for roughly 5k of tau almost a year ago and just recently got back into 3+ with Blood angels, hence the list design you see above. It's nontraditional, to be sure, but i am excited to try it out.

Alright so a quick recap for how the list did over the weekend - I played vs 2 opponents for our local store's campaign using 2 lists in a single 3000 point game. the first list was the gunline seen above, albeit with 2 rhinos & sternguard instead of sanguinary priests. the second list was all assault units, terminators, mephiston, death co, death co dread, etc. As a note - our league uses "strategy cards" which gives bonuses depending on what buildings those players own or control. In the game I played I had the card that gave both my opponents rage & furious charge, while they played one that made the entire game night fight. So effectively my long range was shut down for the majority of the game.

Overall the game went well, I ended up winning with almost no space marines or orks left on the table. I think in a standard game the BA gunline needs an alpha strike to be most effective, as the storm raven and razorbacks are soft targets to enemy anti-tank weaponry. If anybody else does similar lists I'd love to read batreps or hear about them in this subforum.

Thanks everyone who posted advice.