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Soo..how to beat this list with normal Space marines

some changes depending on Points/his ehhr..mood
-Wolf lord on thunder wolf Thunderhammer/stormshield runic armour or w/e 2+AS Saga-of the wolfenkin or the immune to instant death one (bear?) +1 / 2 Wolfs
-depending on points-wolf lord thunderwolf frostblade runic armour Stormshield,1 / 2 wolfs and the saga that gives him more attacks from killing stuff^^
x3 10 Greyhunter squads usually 1 melta 1 plasma 1power weapon wolf standard in rhino's (tho sometimes he adds some wolfguards with plasma pistol/power weapon)

depending on points - 2 squads of 15 Wolfs

x2 Loong fangs x2MLx2HB's

aaaand in big games a scout squad with power weapons outflanking, and a few times 1lone wolf power weapon(wolfs?)

theres rly nothing in this army you can ignore, they all pose a huge threat...even the cheap wolfs,super movement and a tonn of attacks,Turn 3 ur screwd : /
Thinking a bike army could do the trick but i just dont have the minis for it : /

Kinda hard to list what im useing cus im trying it all to find out how to beat this guy, but i guess i usually run somthing like this depending on points :

Vulkan hestan(tried useing a Lib with nullzone to have a better shot at the wolf lords,shooting at them with vindicators,or a Lascannon from a combat squad or a TWLC Razorback)

2-3 Tactical squdas, 2 with MM/MG somtimes a combi weapon of sorts in rhinos and one with flamer and ML in rhino

maybe a Sternguard unit with 2MG 2combi MG and 2 combi Flamers in a rhino

1-2 Dreadnought HVYflamer/MM -drop pod( tho in later games iv been replaceing them with landspeeders some with ML some with MM/flamer
Assault Terminatorsx5 3hammers 2Claws

1-2 Dakka preds(Devestaors with ML, tho the preds come cheaper)


So Vulkan would go with the termis unless i deepstrike them,in witch case i throw him inn a Tack squad or the sternguards removeing 1 guy to fit in the Rhino
the Tack marines will drive off and have a broad side war with the wolf rhino's ( tho they are outgunned and will get theyr asshanded to them in CC,if the Loong fangs dont just shoot them down...)the Dread/dreads(or landspeeders) will try and crack a rhino or two as to slow down the grey hunter assaults. or flame the loongfangs(only to be cracked by the wolf lord)as for the 5 termis,they WANT to fight the wolf lord, but you try and catch that fleeting MF! they usually just end up VS a hunter squad.. or 30 wolfs pumping out 90 attacks..
soo im at a loss...dont have enough things that can go toe to toe with the hunters... cant ignore the wolfs cus theyr fast as hell and,wolf lord will attack whatever he sees fitt due to his move+fleet+assault range ( god forbid we roll dawn of war!) need to take out the loongfangs fast or 1st loose my Rhinos/pred/speeders/dread or once the rhinos starts cracking my marines.

and to make things even harder...this guy's a good player.his dices are magical...his eye for range mesureing.his pain in the ass multi assaults, and his math skill..from assaulting to finding out wether of not to shoot/assault stuff

Interesting case!

Most possibly, your best bet is to stay as far away as possible. A Vulkan list is a bit more mid-ranged.

I would take a Librarian with Null Zone and larger units of Sternguard and Terminators (7-8 strong)
Sterns are great against thunderwolves if you manage to shoot them. Give them at least 5 combi weapons. The termies are great for counter-charging and they should all, always have TH&SS.
Fill the other slots with ranged weapons (typhoon speeders, lascannon predators) and prioritize his transports to slow him down.

Good luck!

Been there with the lib and sternguards/termis, it CAN work but, thats an awful lot of points to take out 1 wolf lord.
Also, with his movment he'l simply Stay away from them,and should i ceep them in a drop pod to take him out in saaay turn 2 or 3, he will do one of two things, ceep them close to the asston of greyhunters while advanceing or holding back depending on the mission,also thats a exspensive saccrefice ^^

as for typhoon speeders easy match for the loong fangs ( as proven by todays match.) Laspreds will hold some attention sure but are very very pricey.
and slowing down his rhinos can be done but, theres a storm of wolfs heading my way packing 90 attacks
As for holding Termis on my line to counter charge wont work against him, he'l just ceep away ( also insert rant about counter attack here :p) a landraider could catch up to the wolflord i guess, hmm maybe vanguard's will work,with shriek,, or infletrate shrike with some assault termis and pray he dosent steal the intiative ^^ witch he alwmost alweys dose :p (depending on mission)
Turn 1 he moves 12 inch fleets his lord and his wolfs, blows up somthing with his loong fangs,
Turn 2 he moves 12 inch poppes smoke fleets his wolfs and lord (the assaulting Starts), blows up more gak and shoots the people innside
Turn 3 Zerged
Turn 4 he moppes up the remaining ressistance ^^

Then we can consent that the wolves are tottally unbeatable by vanilla marines

It seems to me you have already lost each battle in your mind

Why do you think a las predator costs much? Its efficiecy and cost are comparable to Long Fangs squad, and AV 13 is a challenge for MLs
3 predators with 3 landspeeders behind them (to get cover) are a nice fire base that can slow down terrible things coming your way

If you take down his Rhinos first turn, it will possibly take 2-3 turns till the grey hunters reach your lines, and by then you can deal with the lords and cavalry.

I'll also be fighting Thunderwolves for the first time next month (with IG) so I'm definitely interested in this thread.

oooouuuh... Wolflords eats IG's ,he'l ripp throug ur tanks on turn 2(unless you can dodge him) and if ur opponent is useing 2 wolflords its gonna get ugly! one to eat inf and one to eat tanks :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

spartiatis wrote:

It seems to me you have already lost each battle in your mind

Mostly lost on the tabletopp :/

as for the Las pred, i guess id get more out of it then a ML dev squad.

I have a feeling there is a bit of manifest destiny going on here. You think youare going to lose so I'm sure you are making mistakes that make you lose. I see the same thing hapen with an ork player at my FLGS. he is convicned orks are terrible in 5th and that he always rolls bad. he doesn't have a perfect list but he assumes it is terrible and can't win so he never wins because he ends up playing it terribly. He also assumes he will roll bad so he does not take advantage of the litteral bucket of dice he will get to roll.

Good point^^ guess theres not'n to do but to ceep at it ^^ bound to get lucky at some time,(not so far tho i go gunline we roll dawn of war :p and wolflord is on me t1 )

I'll spell it out for you as simple as possible...a lot of high Strength, Low AP shots. Even still, if you can't take a few Las/Plas Razorbacks, a good option is Rifleman Dreads.

Speaking from a Wolf Player Standpoint autocannons are more worrisome than Missile Launchers as they can force more saves which is all you need to do to take the dogs down. Other ways are Heavy Bolters, Kraken Rounds from Sternguard and other things.

Maybe 1 or 2 squads of sniper scouts wouldn't be too bad? The fenrisisian wolves have a pretty low morale and you could pin them in place for a turn or two, keeping them from chewing on you for a bit

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you make a unit pass dangerous terrain tests with a thunderfire cannon? This could also annoy the TWC or regular wolfs a bit( I know it would annoy mine )

hmmz if he dose wolf spam hes useing saga of the wolfkin tho thats LD7 if i memory serves. tho when i use scouts they never seem to hit anything speaking of scouts,, if a Sniperuinit of scouts use their scout move, do they count as haveing moved regarding shooting ?

and the thunderfire cannon just cause difficult,unless the target is already in difficult in witch case they only get 2 roll 1dice. vhiecles that get hit have to take a dangerous test,

My thought for the thunder wolves is someting like this;

TW TW TW


T T T T T T (tactical combat Squad)

S S S S S (Sternguard)

Yes you will lose the combat squad, by try to bait him into an area where his slaughter leaves him exposed, then Rapid fire Kraken or Hellfire)

I faced 2 kited out wolf lords and 2 squads of thunders wolves.

30 sternguard and Pedro ate them for breakfast lol.

60 2+ to wound rounds and then when he assaulted he found out i had 30 attacks per squad because of pedro.
oh and FYI pedro was sitting in the back simply for his bonus. turn 4 all his wolves were dead and I had about 18 sternguard left. he threw the game after that.

oh I forgot to add 1 squad got completely wiped out with my rapid firing 50+, 2+ to wound rounds. all that was left was his wolf lord with like 2 wounds left. he charged my sternguard and then died to a bunch of marines throwing boxing combos because they were inspired pedro was watching them (creepy I know)

Dno how many points you we'r playing but thats well over 900pts to take out wolf lords ,Tho i see how sternguards would do the jobb

now how to deal with 3 rhinos with 30greyhunters hmmz ..

soo..run predro with a bunch of Sternguards in rhinos with not 2many special weapons cus hellfire is nizzle (and i got a awsome scratchbuilt pedro )
2 tacticals in rhino (or scouts with sniper and telion)
sternguards take all the elit slots soo no help there:p
a few landspeeders MM/HF / Typhoons
and a dakka pred or two

i like pedro , orbital bombardment ( tho i rearly get to use it ) +attacks and hes cheap, a bit weak in CC but hey Stubborn is nice to ^^

vindcatorsx3 spaced out works wonders against TWC

yeah hes not useing the TWC just packs of fenris wolfs

works against those too works against most everything lol

Oddly, one of the most useful units I've found against both TWC and Long Fangs are Heavy Bolters. Lots of Heavy Bolters. The ST 5 allows it to cause enough wounds on the TWC that they fail some and you can whittle them down, while against Long Fangs they start losing their effeciency real fast due to a lack of ablative wounds. That hits two of his larger threats.

I have no idea how a thunderfire cannon would work against space wolves. I play against a guy regularly and he will field one or two TF cannons depending on mood and points. It has easily been the all star in many games he has played. the range, types of munitions just give you alot of flexability.

If you are so terrified of his two lords, grab some TH/SS termis. They don't give a crap about those points heavy lords. Esp. if you have Vulkan mastercrafting. Keep a libby nearby if you want som Null zone hilarity. Use rhinos to control where the lords can go. Stern can go in a dp to go after the Longfangs (2ML, 2Hb, is not cheese, BTW. It's actually a pretty soft setup compared to all ML or ML/LC mix). You could also do shrike and infiltrate some Termis up the gut. A libby with gate can also zip termis around.

If he is running non WG GHs, make sure to force LD, then escort them off the board.

And vindis will ruin everything in that SW with little fear of retaliation if you can keep the WLs off 'em.