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Right, so I have ordered the Cygnar battlebox, I was wondering what would be a good next unit to buy to take my total points up to 15pts? As I understand it the battlebox is 11pts in total and contains pStryker, 1 Charger, 1 Lancer and 1 Ironclad. Having had a look at some of the models that would fit in the 4 points remaining I am interested in Swordknights, The Black 13th and the Journeyman warcaster and I was looking for some advice and tactics for using them.

Thanks in advance!

Sword Knights are solid, but, the thing is, the Black 13th are spectacularly versatile and powerful for their cost, which is why everyone takes them. They're solid, and can benefit from any of Stryker's spells.

Personally, I'd set up the spells with:
Snipe on the Black 13th or Charger
Blur on the other one
Shield on the Ironclad
and variously drop or reassign spells when necessary.

What's nice about Stryker + box + Black 13th is, you have a lot of solid options for where your spells will go.

Personally, though, I don't think that WM is balanced outside of battlegroup-only games, below 25 points, so I'd recommend going up to 25 and adding some stuff in, but that's mostly my take

What about the journeyman warcaster, how would he fit with the battlebox?

I'll definately expand the army to 25pts and more in the future, when the student wallet is healthier.

The problem with the Journeyman is, he can't efficiently run any of the warjacks:

charger likes 3 (or 1, either case, you're wasting potential)
the lancer likes to be able to arc offensive spells
you want the ironclad to have the option of 3 focus and to not be attached to a fragile model

furthermore, you'd have 4 upkeeps for 5 models, which I feel is overkill.


Personally, to get the most mileage out of the battlebox, I'd say, just add the black 13th. It's not much more money, and gives you great options: decent power, high accuracy, board control, stealth mitigation, good range, more attacks, etc. They're fragile, but they're easily each worth as much as a 2-point solo.

For future expansions, I may be in the minority here, but my current go-to units are Commandos and Rangers: Commandos benefit from any support spell Cygnar has to offer (except, of course, things that can't target units, etc.) and are well-rounded, while rangers are decent fighters, fast, and can support a lot of your army.

Cool thanks for the advice!

Sure! Happy to help a fellow Cygnar player!

For the record, my order of purchases would probably go:
Black 13 (too good to pass up)
Rangers (will help most of your army)
Another warcaster or two (Frankly, any of them should run that list decently) and/or support solo(s) (runewood, reinholdt, journeyman, eiryss, and the squire are at the top of that list)
A main line unit (precursors are nice, since they require no direct support, commandos because of aforementioned flexibility, sword knights get a lot of bodies on the field)
A heavy warjack kit (for options)

A note: gun mages are very solid, but I rarely field both them and the 13th, because they're fairly redundant, so, if on a budget, unless you're going for the gunmage theme, the 13th will do fine for now.


from there, you probably will have enough experience that you could make your own decisions based on playstyle and shortcomings, and, if you're on a budget, that'll take a while to accumulate.

On a sidenote, if you're not strictly set on sticking with Cygnar models only, you may want to look into a few mercenary solos to round things out. I play against Protectorate quite a bit, for example, and picked up Harlan Versh to help against all the pesky buffs that Menoth likes to throw around.

The black 13th are probably your best choice to take the battlebox up to 15. Sword knights are a nice tar pit but you need every point to count at 15. The journeyman is good, but dosen't really fit well in those low point games with the battlebox contents. For the record, Jr. runs a hunter terrifically.

Everyone has their own opinions based on what works for them, but to me the top cygnar units are:
black 13th
stormblades with or without any attachments, it's all good
rangers
gun mages with officer
Nyss hunters with Murdoch

It's worth pointing out that there is one model that Jr. can run with extreme efficiency (and prejudice) - the Hunter. It generally requires 2 focus to boost the Long Arm shot to heavy busting levels, leaving him with 1 free to upkeep Arcane Shield. And you really can't go wrong with 2 shields - 1 on the Lancer and 1 on the Ironclad means you have two big bricks to take a beating with and that can stand up to most things in the battle box range with no problem.

Sadly Cygnar doesn't hold the high armor advantage much beyond this level - once you start seeing other casters that can really amp up the damage even Arcane Shield doesn't quite cut it - but you can have a solid list with Jr. and a Hunter. That leaves you with 5 points to play with as you like - a Squire + 3 Stormsmiths leaves you well positioned against other journeyman league players, as you have 4 disruption attacks and 2 potent ranged jacks to open the game with, and 2 high armor anvils to bust your enemy's lines with.

Or add in Black 13th and Reinholt. Or any other 5 point combo.

Definitely agree about the JWC. I basically only run him with a Hunter (2 focus is ideal, never needs 3) or the Grenadier (doesn't rely on focus to pepper the enemy with explosions)

That's great, thanks for all the advice everyone!

JWC is really good. You are missing his biggest strenth, Arcane shield. Dont bother giving him a Jack to run. Use him to buff the armor on something and pop a boosted shot when you can.

I highly suggest a Gun Mage unit and UA. Thier high RAT special shots and ability to ignore stealth lets you shoot the front of the enemy army off the table

Finally pick up the Squire for extra focus, extended control range.

Really? The boosted shot is fine, but, that's a lame RAT and nothing to count, why not use that focus on something more accurate and/or stronger?

Not saying the JWC can't do anything on its own, but it's a ton better helping out a jack.

Cause when Junior gets pasted (and any opponent worth their salt knows to paste Junior fast), the jack on him goes inert and instead of being down just three points, you're down three points plus the jack.

Maybe it's because I'm a decent player, maybe it's because I'm a conservative player, maybe my opponents are all idiots, who knows, but I've never had a JWC, attached to a ranged light (the only way I run him) go down before the light was beaten to a pulp and I was throwing him forward for his gun. He can be 6-12" behind the jack and function fine, and I've never seen an opponent willing to risk that much to push behind my lines.

Personally, I don't think that 3 points is worth 3 armor and an unreliable gun in most cases, when you could spend 3 points on 3 armor and 2 focus.

I'm inclined to agree with spiralingcadaver on this one. If I really wanted to worry about picking up some extra armor, there are other more effective ways (utilizing pStryker, for example) that are cheaper and less tempting of a target. Running a 'jack with the JWC makes it:

a) Far more capable from an offensive standpoint.
b) Less tempting, as the opponent will have to contend with a (hopefully) intimidating 'jack to get to your squishy wannabe warcaster.

Give it a shot then you will see what Im talking about.

Give what a shot? The decent pistol that I already pointed out can run backup?

I don't think anyone's arguing that the Journeyman isn't capable on his own (I've had his jack go down or be out of position, and still want to use him), just that focus on a warjack is better than focus on a low-end solo.

Here's an analogous situation: Do you generally want to give Arcane shield to your heavy, or to your ATGMs? Sometimes it'll be the GMs, but most of the time, it'll be the heavy. The name of the game in WM is making something good better, not making something bad okay. Same goes for what attack that focus is helping.

edit: forgot words :/

So is picking up the Cygnar Battle box worth the cost or should I just start at my own build right off the bat? I'm just getting into Cygnar as well. (my son is actually) He likes the models and what not and we will be building this army up to about 35 pts initially. I will be picking up the Cygnar army book first and start looking. This army will be playing a lot of Cryx (dad's army ) So any advice would be great to build against them.

So far I see the

Caster Options?:


Troops?:

Black 13th
Stormblades

Jacks?:

Still looking through the fluff and reading up, but still looking for some good advice to counter Cryx units ie lots of Banes, Bane Knights, and eGaspy as a main caster followed closely by Scaverous.

I think the battlebox is a good direction:

Stryker probably won't win you tournaments, but is well-rounded and pretty forgiving.

I love the charger. It requires focus, so isn't good on a greedy caster, but can run on one, and is a bargain when you have 3 around. Again, a good starting jack, but sees more regular play than Stryker

The Lancer is a great jack with some casters. I think it's fine with Stryker, but not amazing. Worth it in the long run.

The Ironclad is a very solid 7 points, not the best melee heavy we have, but close. It's accurate, durable, and decently fast for a heavy.


I'd say, go for it, unless you're very much in to super-optimized lists, in which case, you'll be wanting lots of character jacks, etc.

Warcasters: probably not Kraye or Darius (more complex to get them to work well), most others are pretty solid commanding a well-rounded list.

Troops: especially against cryx, gunmages and/or (typically or) the Black 13th are great. Precursors work well against cryx, due to offensive spell resistance (though they're hardly immune).

I wouldn't suggest stormblades, because the high power is overkill, and you're going to need to invest a lot to protect them.

A few posts down, there should be a cygnar units thread (maybe it's in armies?). Either way, I find that Commandos and Rangers are great (rangers are worth it against cryx,due to cryx high defense)

warjacks: hunter and defender would be my first picks after the battlegroup (both reliable damagers, staples of my army) followed by Rowdy or a Stormclad (highest damage and efficiency of any pieces)