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Do not see any topics pertaining to this, but what I am inquiring is this: Some weapons, such as the Skaven Warpfire Thrower and other weapons have a profile that normally gives the range, strength, damage and then the modifier to the armor save.

Do you COUNT the strength in with the armor save modifier listed? For example, the Warpfire Thrower is strength five, but its modifier is minus two even though strength five would be minus two. Would this mean it is minus four to your save or what?

To help clarify, the Ratling gun is strength four, but the armor save modifier is minus three or two I believe, and would you STILL count the strength modifier in? I'd assume yes, as these are exceptional weapons, and this usually is only done with army specific special weapons like these.

Thanks!

Yah you add them.

Str does multiple things. It reduces armor (if 4+) and it determines how easy it is to wound.

A Str 5 with armor -2 is like saying "Str 7 vs armor but we don't want it to be Str 7 on the to-wound roll, just Str 5".

Or, great vs. armored foes and less great vs. high toughness foes.

I figured as so. I've played WHFB before (8th edition a little after it came out) and have recently got back into it; I know the basic rules and such to play a 'legal' game. I was just making sure I was doing that correctly, but I see I have been.

Some modifiers combined with strength looked to be a bit on the strong anti-armor side, especially the Warplock Jezzails; although I know they've been FAQ'd to be Armor Piercing instead now, as they were effectively minus seven to one's armor, which meant now armor was allowed.

But thanks! That answers my question.

What?

No, you don't add the listed modifiers to the modifiers based on strength.

If the weapon tells you what the modifier is, that's the total modifier (barring special rules like Armour Piercing.)

So for example, a High/Dark Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower is listed as Str 4 with a -2 modifier. When the opponent makes armour saving throws, it's at -2, not -3 (for being Str 4.)

You sure? I thought they were that, AP. AP is additive with Str. There is a specific BRB rule that says Str >4 reduces armor save. Is there a rule for just the generic "save"?

After reading the rules about modifiers for armor(which is only 2 short paragraphs, pg43 BRB), and after pondering the rules for such weapons as the one in question:
If a weapon is S4, it is -1 to armor. If the weapons special rule gives a modifier different than the one listed for it's strength, you would use the one listed with it's respective unit entry.

Army book rules always trump BRB rules except where FAQ'd(pg11 BRB). So the Ratling gun is indeed S4, and a total of -2 to armor saves. I do find it odd that a warpfire thrower is S5, and yet specifies that it is also -2 to saves, which was already understood per the BRB.

It says save. It doesn't say armor save. It could be regen save or even ward save. And it still isn't implied that it cancels out another rule. If it said total save I'd say it does.

Also what if someone cast Duke's Spell of Nonexistence, which raises the Str. of missile weapons by 1 until next round. Would all those Str 4 and 5 and such weapons not change in their AP values?

We missing some notation?

The modifer to the armor save listed in each weapon entry in the Skaven AB is the total modifier to armor saves including the Strength modifiers.

Here's something from the Skaven FAQ

Page 65 – The Warplock Jezzail, profile
Change to:
Range Strength Special Rules
36" 6 Armour Piercing, Unstable
Ammunition, Pavise

Just to confirm, does the Jezzail profile in the book show -4 to armor save?

hamsterwheel wrote:The modifer to the armor save listed in each weapon entry in the Skaven AB is the total modifier to armor saves including the Strength modifiers.

Says who/what/where?

The BRB says Str of a weapon affects armor save. I don't see anything in any of the army books that say the "Save" modifer, which is just one word, is all-inclusive.

The old Empire book at least said "armor save". The new army book for Empire made every single item AP.

I admit that it's likely much fairer that they not be additive.

For the record, nothing I've seen modifies regen or wards in the negative. You straight up either get them or you don't.

I haven't seen anything either that does. I was being devil's advocate. They are making the assumption that the modifyer is all-encompassing of all bonuses one would normally get and applies to armor alone. Based solely on the word:

save