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 John Prins wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

They could bankroll it themselves. feth, I could bankroll it, nowadays.

Well, if you did, might I suggest a return to HO scale or 15mm? Or a nice 28mm Heavy Gear game?

To be completely honest, if I were to do that, I'd do it for something else. DP9 made it pretty clear that they did neither need nor want me as a customer, back in the day.

For example, nowadays Lancer has picked my fancy. I'd much rather fund 3d files for that line of mechs, at this moment.


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 warboss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

"I like RoBUTTS and I cannot lie"

Seriously, though, I'm interested in anything decent you manage to get

I got you covered. I think the scale is a bit off though.

Spoiler:

...a Mad Cat? Really? Heh

I don't see what the problem could be, tbh.

Honestly, a "best of both worlds" approach would be something akin to 15mm: enough detail and heft for the little guys, not too big Gear and modern-tank sized tanks, so yeah, HO scale would probably work pretty well.

Well, that's already much better than my attempts.

Also, want

Personally I prefer a less marked difference. I understand the reasons from an in-game perspective of being able to differentiate stuff, but... in a void it looks kinda daft.

This is, canonically, how big the two above are in-setting:



So I'd say you're pretty much on point.

EDIT:

O_O

...does the Grizzly have little bear ears? Ohmygoshthatssocute

So I did a small "stuff to Grizzly" scale, and man, does it show:

The Jaguar is the one where the comparison is least stark, but even then, it is huge. Maybe not so much in height, but the... heft, of the Grizzly is surprising.


...of course, it goes downhill from here xd

Hunter... It must be a third of the total volume


...and well, the tiny guys





Pretty sure each single leg of the Grizzly has at leas as much metal as those.

Well, that looks very disappointing, in this day and age.

Eh, I dunno... cheap plastics have their place, but these are only cheap (ish) if you're in the States. Anywhere else? They're GW-price level, what with shipping and taxes and customs and such.

What they aren't GW-level, though? Quality. So... yeah.

Personally? Well, now I'm into 3d-printing at home, and currently I'm backing multiple Patreons, to the tune of about $60 per month. I'd personally be all for them making decently detailed and poseable STL files of their stuff, I'd probably buy them stuff again, if that was the case.

EDIT: ...and now I've actually gone to their store to see their current prices... feth me. $6-11 for a single plastic Gear? Holy gak, that's expensive as feth. And that's not even looking at their JC stuff... what in blazes. The starters at $60 are a bit better, but then again... it's 14 minis for $60. That's pretty much GW level, right there, and before the aforementioned shipping, taxes and customs charges.

 warboss wrote:
Inexpensive.

Detailed.

Variety.

Typically you can only pick two in plastic unless you've got a lot of money up front. That isn't typically the case for small companies unless you really go bonkers on the detail like the kingdom death or whatever it was called and raise equally bonkers money during the campaign.

Well, it really depends, but the current crop kind of feels like the worst of both worlds, to me... limited poseability without cutting up stuff, shallow details, compromises taken everywhere... but still a lot of parts, apparently... I mean, they seem not to be as bad as PB's Robotech stuff... but then again, what is.

I fully expect their metal stuff to continue being good, as I have a crap ton of those still xd.

I have a lot of problems with DP9 as a company, and regarding what they have done with the lore. That said, the setting is still lovely and you can just ignore mostly everything past Storyline Book 4 and be done with it.

Life in Terra Nova is one of the best scifi setting books ever done, simply put. The setting is beautifully detailed, with a "lived-in" atmosphere that makes Battletech look like Disney World in many aspects, where Gears have a place but are not the end-all-be-all of it, and where you can play a lot of different games.

 warboss wrote:

Pretty much the only use is for spare parts for the inevitable next mispack. I had to rob Peter to pay Paul with my missing/incorrect parts and still had to get help from Ashley with a head. She just posted on her blog about a miscast as well that she noticed and had to fix. As for the buttplate, I think it was originally an armored fuel tank so it would make sense to be connected directly to the V-engine if I'm remembering that correctly.

You are indeed remembering correctly, the butt plate is a (very) reinforced fuel tank. That's also the reason why gears powered by electric engines (like the Black Cat) either didn't have a buttplate altogether or it was a much smaller one that worked as the front ones.

Other than not having space for an actual engine/fuel tank, I personally think that the Scopedog is a better design, meaning that it's better thought out... which is not that strange given how much of the genre is at least tangentially designed to be toyetic.

That said, aesthetically I still like the Hunter more, even though it's by a not too big of a margin.

The blueprints I've seen show the coreless leg engines for the wheels, the hip sub battery and the PRSP system packs and battery on the thigh, but there was no engine that I could see ^^

 Vaktathi wrote:
They're both neat designs, hard to pick a "favorite". Both have their issues with actual functionality, as has been noted. The Hunter itself has also changed somewhat, it's original design felt much more "scopedog" like, with the more prominent central camera and round head. I think sticking a powerplant of some sort to the Scopedog's back would help balance the visual profile a bit more (in addition to dealing with some its apparent functional issues).

That said, just in terms of visual coolness? I think I'd have to go Jaeger over either the Scopedog or Hunter. Something about the Jaeger head design really does it for me (and is something I think that the current plastics borked big time, but the metal sculpts nailed perfectly).

Well, I've always been more of a southern fan, so there's that ^^. But the HG Scopedog is most certainly the Basiisk




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 warboss wrote:
Do you think the Scopedog needs an update for modern times? I actually like what Mektek did with the hunter in HGA (not so much the other stuff) but I'm not sure I'd want anyone to mess with the scopedog in a theoretical reboot. I'd be fine with a more modern take on fancy new VOTOMS though if they leave the scopedog and its variants alone.

IIRC, they revised somewhat the designs for Case;Irvine.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a time jump in the storyline with that being some sort of more advanced future Scopedog? I'll be eventually picking up the VOTOMS series on bluray but haven't watched it in many years. I'm surprised they didn't shrink the head if they were doing a partial redesign. I'm not personally a fan of it regardless FWIW.

From what I remember of it (it wasn't that good), storyline wise it's not very clear where it's set, but the story revolves around an illegal fight ring and their pilots, so IIRC they were regular designs modded for close fighting.

As for a possible redesign... the head will stay. It's way too iconic not to, I think. Plus, you already have other designs and advanced designs that do away with it. Even back in the original series you had the Berserga and the Standing Tortoise (which is totally not a HG Black Adder, no siree), but even the Fatty head design is different, and in other series you had the Blood Sucker from The Last Red Shoulder or the Busy Crab from Big Battle, that had a clear canopy.

The important thing, though, is that all look that way for a reason, namely that the pilot need to be somewhere (exactly like HG, even though Gears are a bit bigger), and each design achieves that in their own way.

 John Prins wrote:
Yeah it's sad that the RPG plans went nowhere, but I don't think it would have been very successful anyways. Things are a lot different now. Back when Heavy Gear first came out, its production values were way ahead of most other RPGs in terms of graphic design and art assets. Even the big games like AD&D were pretty plain, design wise, and that really made Dream Pod 9 stand out. Most modern RPGs have caught up or exceeded this level of production design and INFINITY seems to have grabbed the anime-esque tabletop/RPG market. It wouldn't stand out to new players and the old players would have very high standards on all fronts.

Although it's true that HG would not grab as much attention currently for its production values, there is still a market for good sci-fi RPGs with a mecha component, as things like the Lancer RPG can certainly attest (having gotten more than $430k on Kickstarter)... but they have managed their (quite long) alpha and beta phases very professionally and now the tactical part of the game purrs like a well oiled engine.

I wouldn't trust the current DP9 to reach that level. By a long shot.

Still tempted to write a Heavy Gear Lancer mod, though.

I would personally put a "regular mini scale" trooper Gear at a size similar to that of a Contemptor Dreadnought.

I am more or less confident by now that the only way I'll have a 28mm Gear is by designing it myself, unfortunately.

Which might be the incentive to do it, I guess >_>

That looks really cool!

Only thing I've managed so far is wasting time doodling on Tinkercad a bit xD

So far I've started doing a Hunter's main sensor array:



Tinkercad is... not ideal to make roll bars, I've found xD

Nah, right now I'm just messing around to see if I can do something relatively worthwhile without needing to actually learn ^^.

It's... archetypal, I guess, that he eventually got interested in the game DESPITE all the Pod's efforts to the contrary.

I watched the first ep back when the rest was behind the paywall, and it looked pretty cool. Smaller than HGs but much in the "upgraded infantry" box as them.

Given the image and the fact that it's on its knees, height wise it should be quite similar to a Cheetah: the crew compartment is about the same size, it's not Head-in-Head (as this one)... other than the V-Engine and probably thicker extremities, it's in the same ballpark.

 Firebreak wrote:
So there's an RPG again? Pre-Alpha 4th edition is up for review by...someone. I'm going to sound the most like a grognard that I ever have, but I don't know who any of these usernames who are apparently making the game now are.

Oh? Interesting. Does any of the people involved has any actual RPG cred, or is this going to be just a retelling/mish-mash of 2nd edition with current Blitz?


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 Vaktathi wrote:
/wave

sorry it's actually been rather busier than expected between day job and Heavy Gear. If anyone has any Q's, let me know. We are actively soliciting feedback and are still very early in the development stage. We basically started with a whittled down 2E as a base, and have been adapting outward from there based what DP9's looking for (mainly adapting the current Blitz dice mechanic) and feedback we've gotten so far. Current plan is to move the timeline forward to TN1951 (and not restart at Jungle Drums again) and the 2nd CEF invasion, use the RPG to grow the timeline. If there's story stuff/inconsistencies/gaps/etc people want to see addressed, let me know the deets and we'll see about squaring stuff, we'd like to get some of that stuff addressed.

EDIT: Link to DP9 RPG discussions. Take a look at where we're at and what people are talking about.

Ah, thanks, and cheers.

Hm, I was banned from the Pod forums by Dubois, actually, so I won't be saying much there.

I... have big misgivings with the current timeline, TBH, as many of the developments were doing via "magic-wanding" stuff (and even then we apparently got lucky when the landships game tanked), so keeping with the Blitz timeline, which specifically made amends to make it more "wargame friendly" will be actively detrimental for the RPG, I feel.

As to keeping 2e, well... I mean, it was a decent system. For the early 90s. Currently it mostly feels clunky and unwieldy, so I believe you'll probably need to do a bit more than just use a slimmed down version as the core.

Anyways, I'll be looking at this with interest, mild as it might be .


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 Vaktathi wrote:
With respect to mechanics, our goals are a narrative focused RPG with some interplay with Blitz (basic dice mechanics, weapon profile structure, stuff like that) that's less strictly simulationist than the original. It will not be using hexmaps. For miniatures/battlemat combat, currently the view is to use a literalist scale of 1"=5M, and have such combat portray CQB engagements in the vein of the original Skirmish scale, with larger scale combat where forces may be exchanging fire over longer combat distances would generally be handled more narratively. We're still exploring a lot of things and figuring out what people want, starting with some modified 2E basics, and are working from there.

On the face of it, it sounds like the right direction, at least. That said, what do you mean by "narrative" and "simulationist", in this context? I ask because there are as many meanings for those as people uttering them, so having an idea of what you want out of them would be interesting.

Regarding combat, I feel like having Blitz you probably sould link any "miniatures/battlemat" to those and focus the rules of the RPG on theater of the mind combat, with as much help as possible to arbitrate and develop it. Maybe abstract maps with zones, maybe full TotM, maybe a mix of both.

 warboss wrote:

 HudsonD wrote:

The plan would have been changed again to push landships further if that project had been succesful (I blame the excellent Homeworld SoK game for this), and I could go on.

 Albertorius wrote:
I... have big misgivings with the current timeline, TBH, as many of the developments were doing via "magic-wanding" stuff (and even then we apparently got lucky when the landships game tanked), so keeping with the Blitz timeline, which specifically made amends to make it more "wargame friendly" will be actively detrimental for the RPG, I feel.

Could either of you elaborate on those potential changes due to the aborted landship game? I think I remember people posting changes to the fluff on the tech of the landships but I'm not sure how much that would affect the rpg other than having the default "homebase" for military campaigns being set on a landship (which I'd think would be cool personally).

As for the setting, I think I've posted here in the recent (<1 year) past that I'd have preferred a first CEF invasion setting/timeline but I fully admit that is both entirely biased towards my own preferences and an unrealistic pipedream on my part since it wouldn't drive synergistic sales to 75% of the current minis.

Well, for starters it was the physics of the game, as landships were only feasible on Terra Nova due to some very specific conditions. But mainly it was their idea of having landships on every planet, many of them smuggled somehow from Terra Nova via the Black Talons or something... where at that point you really should probably just build spaceships, you know? ^^.

As to the rest of the setting, well, the more it goes down the "all wars all the time", the less space there is for games to be about aything else but the wars. 40k has the advantage of being immensely vast, but Hg's setting is very much not so, so the impact is much bigger there. Kind of like having a game set during WWII, but in a planet of 400m people invaded by about 10 million soldiers.

Hm... ok, but what do you mean by those words, "narrative" and "simulationist"?

You're speaking about crunch level, and decoupling attributes from skills and movement rates... but that's a different axis of game design, so it doesn't actually tell me much, other than if you're bothering with movement rates at all you're thinking more about task resolution than conflict resolution, maybe. (I mean, do you even need movement rate rules? Or attributes, to give a couple of examples?)

I guess that the first thing to ask would be: what is this game about? What are the players supposed to be doing? What themes are you supposed to be exploring?

For reference, and to cite three relatively recent examples, one of which is actually a direct contender with HG, and two that I am personally involved in:

Legend of the Five Rings 5th edition
Be a samurai in a unhistorical mostly japanese asian pastiche and deal with the opposing pulls of what society expects from you as a member of the samurai caste and what you want as a human being. Live by Bushido, die by the sword; deal with your bursting emotions as a samurai has to (by repressing them), or explode spectacularly and dishonor yourself forever while at the same time doing what needs to be done.

Tenra Bansho Zero
Enter inside a kabuki theater play act progression and see how your characters change over the course of the acts while they deal with the things they care for to avoid accumulating karma and devolve into a buddhist akuma, a human-like demon controlled by their worldy desires. Imerse yourself in melodrama-laden performances from yourself and the rest of the players that will literally fuel your powers and reward the rest of the players for it. Live by Fate, die by Karma.

Lancer
You're a Lancer, the cavalry, the elite of the elite of the mech pilots. Get called when the going gets tough and immerse yourself in an extremely rewarding mecha personalization system and and a detailed and highly customizable tactical mech combat system coupled with light, "fiction first" character RPG rules.

So, what's the game about?

 warboss wrote:
You should combine all three... kabuki samurai demon mechs! Make them angsty horny teenagers and you'll have so many ENnies you won't know where to put them!

Oh, TBZ already has that. Only samurai are people surgically altered to hulk out and mecha are piloted by innocent horny teenagers ^^ (because they have not accumulated much karma, being innocents).


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mrondeau wrote:

 warboss wrote:
You should combine all three... kabuki samurai demon mechs! Make them angsty horny teenagers and you'll have so many ENnies you won't know where to put them!

I'm not that certain Evangelion would work that well as a RPG.

Well, Monsterhearts is already a thing, and it could be easily modified for Evangelion mech action...

Also, Bliss Stage has been written for years:

http://www.tao-games.com/bliss-stage/

And a friend of mine wrote another one, Titan Academy, which uses some of the same tropes combined with some others (I playtested that last one and helped write some parts):

http://psilan.net/academiatitan/

Thanks. Still, that is mostly setting, which still doesn't tell me much about themes, or what the game is about (In my examples I specifically tried to give as little setting information as possible to make it clear that at this stage it's not really important).

The only thing I can see from that, so far, is that it's a wartime RPG.

Given that:
- Is the game actually about the different wars on Terra Nova and beyond, which is a great departure from the older editions? Is it a "wargame" RPG in the vein of Twilight 2000 or Deathwatch, for example?
- What themes do you guys expect should be explored?
- What's the expected gameplay experience, and how will the mechanics enforce that experience?

 Paint it Pink wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Thanks. Still, that is mostly setting, which still doesn't tell me much about themes, or what the game is about (In my examples I specifically tried to give as little setting information as possible to make it clear that at this stage it's not really important).

The only thing I can see from that, so far, is that it's a wartime RPG.

Given that:
- Is the game actually about the different wars on Terra Nova and beyond, which is a great departure from the older editions? Is it a "wargame" RPG in the vein of Twilight 2000 or Deathwatch, for example?
- What themes do you guys expect should be explored?
- What's the expected gameplay experience, and how will the mechanics enforce that experience?

Colour me interested in where you're going with this. I'm not sure I follow what you mean by themes?

Sorry if this feels like a demand for an explanation, but I'm genuinely curious for you to unpack this. What Albertorius said seemed clear enough to me, but you've piqued my interest that I've missed something. I hate missing the point, and curiousity is my one of my defining traits.

Hm, confused now. Are you asking me (Albertorius) or Vaktathi?

If it is me, the only themes I have been able to see in the blurb is "wartime RPG" in the vein of a WWII RPG or the like, but it actually doesn't tell me much other than that it will deal with the war. That is actually a theme (war stories) but doesn't tell me much about tone or anything else apart of some setting stuff that as a newbie I would probably not be able to really decipher (There are Badlands clans or something, so there's Badlands in the setting; there are homesteads; there are purple monsters; Some place called Port Oasis burns, and something called Les Temoins which is maybe a library...).

As a counterpoint, in the examples I made I tried to avoid setting details as much as possible and tried to focus on what the game is supposed to be about (samurai drama!, Tactical mecha combat and light character RP!). That kind of stuff.

 Firebreak wrote:
What would you say the theme(s) of the original/2E RPG were, or what were they trying to explore?

I'd say intrigue, namely political but more broadly "factional" (between corporations, military units, etc.); and a healthy dose of that staple of Canadian fiction, "man-vs-nature." Sure it's a sci-fi setting, but it was always made very clear that Terra Nova is not EASY.

For starters, let's remark that Silhouette didn't really play to the themes of any particular setting other than in the broad general sense that it was a system centered around a taks resolution system with a results curve that made higher skill reliable and where the sweet spot was in a "human range" of values... and which broke quite fast as soon as you took it out of the sweet spots.

As to Heavy Gear specifically, other than the above system assumptions, all the themes were setting ones and weren't really enhanced or enforced by the actual ruleset.

Im my mind, the main themes of HG as a setting always were:

- Life in the frontier, both as a general trope of the setting (TN is a frontier world, after all, and very sparsely populated) and as a specific one (the Badlands, duh ) and a sort of old Western flair in many aspects, and related to that the concept of liberty, usually from opressors (be it CEF, the AST but also the Humanist Alliance or the hypercapitalism of the UMF).
- Honor: Specifically the duelists and all, but also how personal honor faces against the needs of survival or duty.
- Intrigue: As Firebreak said, there's multiple leves of intrigue, that usually mix among themselves. Also, shades of grey. Nobody is wholly good or bad in Terra Nova.
- Might vs. Right: This one's related with the Life in the frontier and liberty themes exposed above.
- War, was never changes: Well... duh . But more specifically, TN has post war themes (The WotA and how it affected... everyone, really, and what to do with the consequences of it), but also Cold War and Pre War themes (here it links with the Intrigue, too). Not as many actual war themes as the original setting tried to be more expansive than that, but they did make it the main theme of a fair amount of sourcebooks and of a whole campaign.
- Societal mores: One of the great things of Terra Nova is its very detailed, nuanced and believable societies, and the way they have evolved to the frontier world they live in. As said above, there's no "good" or "bad" cultures. There's only people, and the way they conform or reject their societies.