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It's no secret that out of the Tyranid's once stellar heavy support options, we're now down to only two who can really be worth their costs, the Trygon and the Tyrannofex. The once mighty carnifex is now overcosted, nowhere near as versatile as it once was, and can't even use wound allocation rules to it's advantage. The biovore lost it's versatility by having it's once plentiful ammunition options stripped away and is now a very mediocre mortar. The mawloc is a one trick pony and a obscenely expensive one at that, doing pitiful damage outside of it's deep striking pie plate. And Old One eye is terribad beyond words. Thus we have the Tfex and the Trygon.

So which generally is the better monstrous creature for it's points? I frequently alternate between the two and I'd really like to know which one should I be relying on more often to crunch heavy armour? Yes there is the zoanthrope, but I prefer Hive Guard for my elite slots. And the harpy is simply too inaccurate and it's functional AP- against vehicles too damning for me to consider it highly reliable.

Depends, do you need to patch synapse? If not it's the Tyrannofex.

The trygon will rip almost any tank apart when it charges especially if it has adrenal glands, but if you want to have your big nasty sat back the T'fex is your best option as it has the highest strength gun in the codex.

smUrfsrUs wrote:The trygon will rip almost any tank apart when it charges especially if it has adrenal glands, but if you want to have your big nasty sat back the T'fex is your best option as it has the highest strength gun in the codex.

The problem with that is that against say landraiders, the termis inside have this bad habit of mulching the Trygon once they get out. The Tfex would blow up their land raider from a long distance and they'd have to inch along the board for the rest of the game. However, the Trygon probably has a better chance of ripping open said land raider through sheer volume of S7 monstrous creature attacks that all reroll.

The problem I see with the tyrannofex is the crappy BS. 1 of your 2 shots will hit and after this you have another 50% chance to make a glance/pen. on AV14 and like you said the big bunch of 7+2D6 attacks will open a Land Raider for sure.

I love using the tyrranofex with rupture cannon and find him very effective at popping anthing he shoots at, also with his other shooting attacks, makes him just as deadly up close aswell. Only problem being he is very expensive, so would only use in higher points games. Oh, and a 2+ save is always nice to have

At the end of the day I feel they are both equally as good, and it depends on how the rest of your list/tactics work and ultimately which one fits better with your playstyle.

Kain wrote:

smUrfsrUs wrote:The trygon will rip almost any tank apart when it charges especially if it has adrenal glands, but if you want to have your big nasty sat back the T'fex is your best option as it has the highest strength gun in the codex.

The problem with that is that against say landraiders, the termis inside have this bad habit of mulching the Trygon once they get out. The Tfex would blow up their land raider from a long distance and they'd have to inch along the board for the rest of the game. However, the Trygon probably has a better chance of ripping open said land raider through sheer volume of S7 monstrous creature attacks that all reroll.

7 attacks on the charge, re-rolling to hit, strength 7 2d6 armour penetration. so about 5-6 hits if it has moved up to 6" and 3-4 that will penetrate should be enough to kill it. If you use the T'fex you will be hurting it quicker but it is harder to hurt it as 1/4 chance of doing anything with each shot (guessing you're using s10 gun). Agre with the fact the termies are a problem, could you take both mc?

I usually run both if I have the points. The Fex is too useful to pop vehicles at range, and the Trygon usually ends up being a Prime so I can have some quick backfield synapse.

Honestly I'd like to run both but the odd number of heavy support slots means I have to chose whether I want more of one or the other.

I think you get more bang for your buck outta trygons but I honestly have never been disappointed by t-fexes when I tested them out years ago. Have yet to use them frequently though (waited for the kit and now just bored by bugs and 5ed in general).

The nice thing about t-fexes is that the 2+ save and ranged weaponry makes them a great los blocker for your tervigons. Also having a t-fex or two opens up the elite slot a bit more.

The problem with that is that against say landraiders, the termis inside have this bad habit of mulching the Trygon once they get out. The Tfex would blow up their land raider from a long distance and they'd have to inch along the board for the rest of the game. However, the Trygon probably has a better chance of ripping open said land raider through sheer volume of S7 monstrous creature attacks that all reroll.

To me tyranids can't rely on dealing with land raiders early enough to deter the contents -- t-fexes are too unreliable for the points, zoanthropes are too short ranged and spores don't solve the issue due to timing; and trygons are also too short of a threat range. As a bug player you have to plan around that eventual assault and dealing with both the land raider and contents late game. That means bubble wrapping with termagants, and/or counter assault via trygons and stealers, etc etc.

In other words, I wouldn't take t-fexes to solve my landraider and terminator problem just because they have a slight chance of doing so from range. They are simply one ingredient to your recipe.

winterman wrote:I think you get more bang for your buck outta trygons but I honestly have never been disappointed by t-fexes when I tested them out years ago. Have yet to use them frequently though (waited for the kit and now just bored by bugs and 5ed in general).

The nice thing about t-fexes is that the 2+ save and ranged weaponry makes them a great los blocker for your tervigons. Also having a t-fex or two opens up the elite slot a bit more.

The problem with that is that against say landraiders, the termis inside have this bad habit of mulching the Trygon once they get out. The Tfex would blow up their land raider from a long distance and they'd have to inch along the board for the rest of the game. However, the Trygon probably has a better chance of ripping open said land raider through sheer volume of S7 monstrous creature attacks that all reroll.

To me tyranids can't rely on dealing with land raiders early enough to deter the contents -- t-fexes are too unreliable for the points, zoanthropes are too short ranged and spores don't solve the issue due to timing; and trygons are also too short of a threat range. As a bug player you have to plan around that eventual assault and dealing with both the land raider and contents late game. That means bubble wrapping with termagants, and/or counter assault via trygons and stealers, etc etc.

In other words, I wouldn't take t-fexes to solve my landraider and terminator problem just because they have a slight chance of doing so from range. They are simply one ingredient to your recipe.

The Tfexes at least force the marine player to be more cautious with his land raider and get him to hug cover with it or move too fast to disembark it's passengers or shoot.

I would go with the Trygon unless I could justify the points for a Tyrannofex however the fex does have four shots (monstrous creature shoots twice) and can threaten those template dropping tanks from turn one or even just slam some led in to something you don't like.

Hormagaunt wrote:I would go with the Trygon unless I could justify the points for a Tyrannofex however the fex does have four shots (monstrous creature shoots twice) and can threaten those template dropping tanks from turn one or even just slam some led in to something you don't like.

He can fire 2 guns, not 1 gun twice. The rupture cannon will only ever get 2 shots a turn.

Which is the better fruit? Apples or Oranges?

Seriously, you can't even compare the two. They have two completely different purposes. Take the one that you need in your army.

Carnage43 wrote:

Hormagaunt wrote:I would go with the Trygon unless I could justify the points for a Tyrannofex however the fex does have four shots (monstrous creature shoots twice) and can threaten those template dropping tanks from turn one or even just slam some led in to something you don't like.

He can fire 2 guns, not 1 gun twice. The rupture cannon will only ever get 2 shots a turn.

I'm pretty sure if I could fire that rupture cannon twice per turn there would be little reason to *not* take a Tfex if I could expect heavy armour in any capacity.

Kain wrote:

Carnage43 wrote:

Hormagaunt wrote:I would go with the Trygon unless I could justify the points for a Tyrannofex however the fex does have four shots (monstrous creature shoots twice) and can threaten those template dropping tanks from turn one or even just slam some led in to something you don't like.

He can fire 2 guns, not 1 gun twice. The rupture cannon will only ever get 2 shots a turn.

I'm pretty sure if I could fire that rupture cannon twice per turn there would be little reason to *not* take a Tfex if I could expect heavy armour in any capacity.

QFT. I take fexes because I dislike the Trygon model, but Trygons are amazing units.

My bad then I assumed you could fire two shots from the same gun... which kind of makes sense as most monstrous creatures don't carry two guns.

Hormagaunt wrote:My bad then I assumed you could fire two shots from the same gun... which kind of makes sense as most monstrous creatures don't carry two guns.

24 STR 5 shots from a Trygon Prime.
40 shots from a flesh borer hive... Might make it worth taking.

It'd be nice.

rigeld2 wrote:

Hormagaunt wrote:My bad then I assumed you could fire two shots from the same gun... which kind of makes sense as most monstrous creatures don't carry two guns.

24 STR 5 shots from a Trygon Prime.
40 shots from a flesh borer hive... Might make it worth taking.

It'd be nice.

Of course it would make it largely pointless to equip a MC with 2 guns then.

Kain wrote:

winterman wrote:I think you get more bang for your buck outta trygons but I honestly have never been disappointed by t-fexes when I tested them out years ago. Have yet to use them frequently though (waited for the kit and now just bored by bugs and 5ed in general).

The nice thing about t-fexes is that the 2+ save and ranged weaponry makes them a great los blocker for your tervigons. Also having a t-fex or two opens up the elite slot a bit more.

The problem with that is that against say landraiders, the termis inside have this bad habit of mulching the Trygon once they get out. The Tfex would blow up their land raider from a long distance and they'd have to inch along the board for the rest of the game. However, the Trygon probably has a better chance of ripping open said land raider through sheer volume of S7 monstrous creature attacks that all reroll.

To me tyranids can't rely on dealing with land raiders early enough to deter the contents -- t-fexes are too unreliable for the points, zoanthropes are too short ranged and spores don't solve the issue due to timing; and trygons are also too short of a threat range. As a bug player you have to plan around that eventual assault and dealing with both the land raider and contents late game. That means bubble wrapping with termagants, and/or counter assault via trygons and stealers, etc etc.

In other words, I wouldn't take t-fexes to solve my landraider and terminator problem just because they have a slight chance of doing so from range. They are simply one ingredient to your recipe.

The Tfexes at least force the marine player to be more cautious with his land raider and get him to hug cover with it or move too fast to disembark it's passengers or shoot.

Land raiders have "assault ramp." Also machine spirit means that even if they move at 12 inch speed, they can still fire one weapon AND its passengers are still free to disembark and assault

Land raiders have "assault ramp." Also machine spirit means that even if they move at 12 inch speed, they can still fire one weapon AND its passengers are still free to disembark and assault

Chaos land raiders have no machine spirit but if your that worried about some terminators then why not just kick there head's in when they come out? Assuming they all have power fists or whatever there hitting you last so just make sure you wipe them out first with sheer numbers?

Hormagaunt wrote:

Land raiders have "assault ramp." Also machine spirit means that even if they move at 12 inch speed, they can still fire one weapon AND its passengers are still free to disembark and assault

Chaos land raiders have no machine spirit but if your that worried about some terminators then why not just kick there head's in when they come out? Assuming they all have power fists or whatever there hitting you last so just make sure you wipe them out first with sheer numbers?

Termies in a raider are almost always going to be of the assault variety, that 3+ invul save of theirs goes a long way into making genestealer rending and warrior boneswords rather ineffective. As for Chaos Termies, as they're generally less lethal, with even Tzeentch Termies being more expensive and having a worse invul save, yeah that would work much better.

Popping land raiders at range is for the zoanthrope and not the TFex. S10 lance and AP1 means you glance on 2s and +1 on the damage chart. They are also BS4 and not BS3 like the Tfex. The BS3 and/or non twin-linking just make that 265 pts seem a bit too rich for.

210 for a trygon is about right and the prime is only really needed for synapse cover. I don't tend to shoot as the trygon has fleet and needs to be in CC ASAP. Just don't play him against GK and all those force weapons ...

If only zoeys or hive guard were heavy support, then we'd be sorted.

ruminator wrote:Popping land raiders at range is for the zoanthrope and not the TFex. S10 lance and AP1 means you glance on 2s and +1 on the damage chart. They are also BS4 and not BS3 like the Tfex. The BS3 and/or non twin-linking just make that 265 pts seem a bit too rich for.

210 for a trygon is about right and the prime is only really needed for synapse cover. I don't tend to shoot as the trygon has fleet and needs to be in CC ASAP. Just don't play him against GK and all those force weapons ...

If only zoeys or hive guard were heavy support, then we'd be sorted.

I wouldn't call being within 18' of a Land Raider exactly "at range."

Kain wrote:

ruminator wrote:Popping land raiders at range is for the zoanthrope and not the TFex. S10 lance and AP1 means you glance on 2s and +1 on the damage chart. They are also BS4 and not BS3 like the Tfex. The BS3 and/or non twin-linking just make that 265 pts seem a bit too rich for.

210 for a trygon is about right and the prime is only really needed for synapse cover. I don't tend to shoot as the trygon has fleet and needs to be in CC ASAP. Just don't play him against GK and all those force weapons ...

If only zoeys or hive guard were heavy support, then we'd be sorted.

I wouldn't call being within 18' of a Land Raider exactly "at range."

That's what mycetic spores are for. Drop them within 18" and then shoot.

ruminator wrote:

Kain wrote:

ruminator wrote:Popping land raiders at range is for the zoanthrope and not the TFex. S10 lance and AP1 means you glance on 2s and +1 on the damage chart. They are also BS4 and not BS3 like the Tfex. The BS3 and/or non twin-linking just make that 265 pts seem a bit too rich for.

210 for a trygon is about right and the prime is only really needed for synapse cover. I don't tend to shoot as the trygon has fleet and needs to be in CC ASAP. Just don't play him against GK and all those force weapons ...

If only zoeys or hive guard were heavy support, then we'd be sorted.

I wouldn't call being within 18' of a Land Raider exactly "at range."

That's what mycetic spores are for. Drop them within 18" and then shoot.

Then watch your Zoans either fail their Psy test or get hooded. Zoans are NOT reilable despite the nice profile on their weapon...

ruminator wrote:

Kain wrote:

ruminator wrote:Popping land raiders at range is for the zoanthrope and not the TFex. S10 lance and AP1 means you glance on 2s and +1 on the damage chart. They are also BS4 and not BS3 like the Tfex. The BS3 and/or non twin-linking just make that 265 pts seem a bit too rich for.

210 for a trygon is about right and the prime is only really needed for synapse cover. I don't tend to shoot as the trygon has fleet and needs to be in CC ASAP. Just don't play him against GK and all those force weapons ...

If only zoeys or hive guard were heavy support, then we'd be sorted.

I wouldn't call being within 18' of a Land Raider exactly "at range."

That's what mycetic spores are for. Drop them within 18" and then shoot.

Also, Zoanthropes use psychics, so even though they have +1 BS compared to a TFex, they still have a chance to fail their psychic check (1/12) and/or be countered by the Libby inside the Land Raider (15/36). This effectively reduces them to a BS of (about) 2.

Never said zoeys were perfect, but for popping armour 14 I'd take them over a TFex every time.

As an aside MC's do have relentless and can fire two weapons a turn;

On topic, the poor Tfex only has the option for one rupture cannon, sadly.

Which seems odd considering the way most other codex since have allowed
stupid easy (read cheap and ready!) the numberof powerful long range AT and
such! And honestly, Acid Spray?! Seems like they were trying to include that one
FW model the Heirdicuole or somesuch The thorax swarm would be
nice since the Tfex is the only other model in the codex that can take it, but once
again, who is going to CQB the only real long range AT Tyranid option?

The above is why I am of the camp that Robin Cruddace had some form of personal dislike for the Tyranids to make such a subpar codex for them.