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Hi guys

The mission is dawn of war. I have two squads of marines in a rhino. In the beginning, can I deploy only one of them (one troop would be the infantry, the other would be the vehicle) or both of them (both units counting as one troop choice)? We had a disagreement about this at the gaming club and the rulebook is not specific in this regard.

Thank you for your answers.

It's units. The troops and their transport are different units, so each takes up one of your two unit allowance.

The rulebook is clear on this. If you are unconvinced, read the example deployment.

Troop and dedicated transport are one unit.

Dedicated Transports count as a separate unit from the same FOC slot as the unit it was bought for (p87, 'Dedicated Transports'; also repeated in several codices). Dawn of War very specifically calls for up to two Troops units to be deployed (p93), so a Troops unit's dedicated transport WILL count as one of these.

This is also clarified in the example for DOW given on p93.

There is a notable exception for the Imperial Guard, though, where an entire Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in deployment (C:IG FAQ p1), so they can get two entire Platoons onto the table at the start of a DOW game (nasty, right?).

Tun_Tau wrote:Troop and dedicated transport are one unit.

That's complete nonsense. Maybe you should check the first pages of the BRB about what a unit is and what limitations come with being a unit. For example, being forced to stay in coherency.
If still in doubt, the exact composition of a unit is named besides each codex entry in every codex, including dedicated transports.

Tun_Tau wrote:Troop and dedicated transport are one unit.[/quote

Incorrect. Page 3, for a start, then page 92 (from memory) Multipl Unit choices. You are also ignoring the example given in Dawn Of War deployment, so I suggest a quick reread.

The rule is pretty badly worded to be fair. It could have excplitly reminded people that dedicated transports count as a second unit.

Its not badly worded, its common sense in the fact that it says UNITS not Force Org Selections.


However, that said, the new Imperial Guard FAQ kinda feths it up...

How is saying "unit" badly worded? IT is a defined term in 40k, vehicles are always separate units as you're told very early on, and the EXAMPLE even restates this.

IT is very, very clearly written

Joey wrote:The rule is pretty badly worded to be fair. It could have excplitly reminded people that dedicated transports count as a second unit.

It does remind you. Read the deployment example given for player B in DoW. In fact, here:

In his half of the table, player B then deploys a unit of Troops, already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops). He then deploys an independent character from
his HQ, joining the unit embarked in the transport.

How anyone can think that the bolded part is not clear is beyond me...........................................................

You are right, the example clarifies that. I admitt it didn´t occur to me to read it.

So am I right in thinking a Necron overlord couldn't deploy in his ccb, as they would be 2 HQ units?

rubicant99 wrote:So am I right in thinking a Necron overlord couldn't deploy in his ccb, as they would be 2 HQ units?

Yes.

nosferatu1001 wrote:How is saying "unit" badly worded? IT is a defined term in 40k, vehicles are always separate units as you're told very early on, and the EXAMPLE even restates this.

IT is very, very clearly written

If you were to sit down and examine it, yes. But it's easy to skim over and assume it means FOC slots. That's what "troops" means 99% of the time.

Dedicated transports don't take the same FOC slot as the unit that bought it. They are outside the FOC.

Joey wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:How is saying "unit" badly worded? IT is a defined term in 40k, vehicles are always separate units as you're told very early on, and the EXAMPLE even restates this.

IT is very, very clearly written

If you were to sit down and examine it, yes. But it's easy to skim over and assume it means FOC slots. That's what "troops" means 99% of the time.

By "skim" you mean "not reading the word unit"

Or reading the example.

Dedicated transports don't take the same FOC slot as the unit that bought it. They are outside the FOC.

Incorrect. The example given with the Dawn of War scenario shows that dedicated transports are clearly inside of the Force Organization chart.

I think he means, that they do not use an FOC slot. They still have an FOC type (HQ/Elite/Troop/etc.) but do not use the Slot for their given type.

copper.talos wrote:Dedicated transports don't take the same FOC slot as the unit that bought it. They are outside the FOC.

They don't take up a slot by themselves, but they are still treated as a separate unit from that same slot. See page 87 of the Rulebook under 'Dedicated Transports'.

Happyjew wrote:I think he means, that they do not use an FOC slot. They still have an FOC type (HQ/Elite/Troop/etc.) but do not use the Slot for their given type

That however is quite different than saying that dedicated transports exist outside of the Force Organization chart altogether.

They exist outside the FOC alltoghether. If for some reason you need to check what kind of unit they are (such as DoW deployment), only then they count as being of the same FOC category (not slot) as the unit that bought them. BRB pg 87.

Joey wrote:If you were to sit down and examine it, yes. But it's easy to skim over and assume it means FOC slots. That's what "troops" means 99% of the time.

It really doesn't, not in the current edition.

FOC slots matter when you are building your army, but these days that's about it. All of the current deployment rules (DoW, Reserves, Deep Strike, etc) work around units, not FOC slots, as do victory conditions in the standard missions.

copper.talos wrote:They exist outside the FOC alltoghether.

Incorrect. They and the unit that the transport was purchased for share the same Force Organization chart slot.

copper.talos wrote:They exist outside the FOC alltoghether. If for some reason you need to check what kind of unit they are (such as DoW deployment), only then they count as being of the same FOC category (not slot) as the unit that bought them. BRB pg 87.

And in this situation, the distinction is being called for. I think we're all saying the same thing with different words, so what are we debating about again? Also, why the distinction between categories and slots? To my knowledge, "FOC slot" isn't defined by the rulebook; it's a colloquial term for "FOC selection".

@Ghaz, he is actually right that they do "sit outisde the Force Organisation structure" as per p87. But you're right, the distinction is being called for, therefore they are (well, "count as", but there is no practical difference) Troops units.

Well, by saying they share the slot with their parent unit it's making it a little clearer conceptually that DTs are still limited (albeit by extension) by the Force Org chart. It also makes the question of what category they count as obvious and intuitive, even if it wasn't stated explicitly on page 87.

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Anyway, on the original subject, Multiple Unit Choices is the bit on page 92 (or 94?) that I'm tempted to tattoo on my arm for the benefit of inattentive readers.