Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been trying to figure out my allies with Imperial Guard as my primary detachment and a group of Blood Angels as my allied detachment. I want to have a Blood Angel Librarian join a unit of my Veterans Squads and am concerned that if I do so, that I will not be able to issue orders to my veteran squad. So if I do have an allied detachment IC join my veterans, can I still issue them orders?

The FAQ says has this restriction for Imperial Guard orders.
"Select a single friendly non-vehicle unit chosen from codex: Imperial Guard"

RAW I would say no, because the IC is not from that codex. However, it could be stretched that since the IC is just that an IC, then you could still issue orders...Just my thoughts, I am sure someone more knowledgeable will refute this.

The unit is a unit of guardsmen from codex: Imperial Guard.

If you're concerned, just don't give the librarian any of the benefits aside from like... running. Like don't let him reroll hit rolls. Most opponents shouldn't complain then.

So in essence......
My veteran squad would be able to recieve the order, but since it cannot effect my Librarian, the librarian would not be effected by whatever order I gave the unit.

As far as run run run goes, I have to move at the slowest rate of movement, so I would not be able to recieve this order?

What about Get Back Into the Fight?

I am afraid I am still confused on this one.

The unit includes ICs from non-IG units so I'd say no orders.

It falls under the same rule as the Eldar Harlequins/Dark Eldar Archon/Fortune scenario:

The unit targeted is legal (guardsmen, or harlies). The power affects the entire unit (orders, fortune). The IC is attached to the unit, therefore benefits from the power (librarian, archon).

The BRB says that ICs become the unit they are attached to, so an IC joining a guard squad can benefit from the order, but say Lord Commissar joins a BA tactical squad, he could't recieve orders because he is now technically a BA.

So then he'll get the bonuses from a priest?

HoverBoy wrote:So then he'll get the bonuses from a priest?

I don't think so... BA FAQ states that the blood chalice only effects models from codex: Blood angels. Then again Fortune only effects units from codex: eldar. I think the distinction here is "model" vs "unit".

tetrisphreak wrote:Then again Fortune only effects units from codex: eldar.

Not quite true. It's not that Fortune/Guide can only effect Eldar units. It can only be cast on Eldar units.

Yeah, and Dark Eldar are still Eldar.

Fluff-wise you are correct. However, names don't make the thing, otherwise:

Heavy Flamers are heavy weapons
Fire Dragons are dragons
etc.

To be more precise, Dark Eldar are eldar, not Eldar.

Happyjew wrote:Fluff-wise you are correct. However, names don't make the thing, otherwise:

Heavy Flamers are heavy weapons
Fire Dragons are dragons
etc.

To be more precise, Dark Eldar are eldar, not Eldar.

You forget; Fluff is rules, Dark Eldar are Eldar because Dark Eldar are Eldar.

So a Dark Eldar Unit allied to the Eldar Farseer may freely have Fortune/Guide cast upon it.

No. Fluff is rules only when it is specified that it is rules (i.e What counts as Daemons).

Happyjew wrote:No. Fluff is rules only when it is specified that it is rules (i.e What counts as Daemons).

Citation needed.

We have statements that Fluff equals rules(Plasma Syphon, Daemons, etc).

We have no Statements that fluff does not equal rules.

Dark Eldar are Eldar according to fluff. Fortune says "Eldar Unit".

Rules and fluff correspond to a Dark Eldar unit being eligible as an "Eldar Unit"

Yeah, if it said(or had been FAQ'ed to say) it only effects friendly units from Codex: Eldar then we would know Fortune only works that way. But they didn't and Dark Eldar and Eldar are Battlebros.

So all Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Black Templar can ride in Space Marine vehicles, because after all, they are Space Marines fluff-wise.

I don't remember where Blood Angels would be found in the Guard codex. Is the FAQ not clear enough?

No, but not because they are not "space Marines" but because they are Allied Transports and thus disallowed by the allies rules(very specifically).

The only way to get an ally inside your vehicles is if you are Battlebrothers and attach an IC to one of your squads.

Grey Templar wrote:The only way to get an ally inside your vehicles is if you are Battlebrothers and attach an IC to one of your squads.

I don't think that would work, since you cannot ride in your battle brothers transports.

Yes, but a IC that attaches to the unit is now part of that unit(and subject to its restrictions)

I'm not familiar with the new rules, but I think that the order would jjust apply to the Veterans and not the Librarian.

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, but a IC that attaches to the unit is now part of that unit(and subject to its restrictions)

He is still an allied model, and so cannot embark. Nothing about joining a unit removes that condition.

I don't know how many times this has been quoted among discussions like this but "...he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."
I read this as he effectively belongs to whatever codex the unit he joined belongs to.

Celticwelsh wrote:The BRB says that ICs become the unit they are attached to, so an IC joining a guard squad can benefit from the order, but say Lord Commissar joins a BA tactical squad, he could't recieve orders because he is now technically a BA.

And here I was thinking that the Blood Angels had a rigorous and demanding training regimen which weeds out the weak. Hmph, standards certainly have fallen since Sanguinius' day...

All ribbing aside, I'm in the field of Dark Eldar do not count as Eldar just because fluff-wise they are eldar. Afterall, in the CSM codex, Daemon Princes, while daemons in fluff, and obviously modeled as one, do not count as Daemons.

For those who are interested, the DP does not have the daemon rule, though he is fearless and has a 5++ save. I like to think that the DP simply is still too much Chaos Marine, and not enough Daemon. This explains why he hasn't learnt to fly if given wings (grumble...) and why he uses Psychic Powers when real Daemons don't.

Eldar and Deldar are not the same, it would open too many cans of worms, imagine if you would someone saying "BA are space marines, so i can take any of the Space marine units from any of the codex's, because the SM codex's say there space marines" this is cleary wrong right?