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Soni put a kess detailed version of this in the wrong forum. appologies.

any way...

you may have seen me deciding about different armues and cost etc.

ive decided between 2 armies.

my gf is buying me an army for our anniversary.

which should it be?

option 1.
fluff: A previously rich state has been worshiping morr opposed to sigmar for some time. they have lost everything due to merecenary ogres marching through... they blame this as an act of sigmar taking wrath ipon them. they have gone into a holy fervour and now support him fully whilst wearing their rags...

this quick fluff is basicly to exolain a mix if list and modelling.

i am using brettonian men at arms with a mix of free company for my halbediers. and battlie oilgrims with rough plasticard-orc like armour as greatswords... they hit the drink after they lost their money lol...
abyway. heres the list...
Wizard Lord 270 pts. -Lore of Shadow -Dispell Scroll -Talisman of preservation -Level 4  
Captain of the empire 126 pts. -BSB -Full Plate Armour -Talisman of Protection -Enchanted Shield  
Warrior Priest 69 pts. -Heavy Armour -Shield  
Warrior Priest 69 pts. -Heavy Armour -Shield  
Warrior Priest 69 pts. -Heavy Armour -Shield  
40 Halbediers 260 pts. -Captain and Standard Bearer  
40 Halbediers 260 pts. -Captain and Standard Bearer  
30 GreatSwords 395 pts. -Full command -War Banner
  5 Pistoliers 100 pts -Musician  
5 Pistoliers 100 pts -Musician  
Hurricanum 130 pts  
Great cannon 120 pts

Option 2 is....

A savage green tide. less fluffy but led by my Favourite WOW alt... ORKATRIX JENKINS. (ie gurrzagg)

Heres the list. i wrote this some time ago...

> Orkatrix Jenkinz “Da Boss” > Wurrzag-350 >
> Grun “Da Runt” > Savage Orc Shaman-120 > shrunken head (ward saves +1) >
> Merlugg “Da Un-Magik” > Savage orc big boss-145 > razor standard (armour piercing) >
> Squigtall “Da Ekskuse” > Goblin shaman-55
> > 50 savage orcs-590 > musician > standard bearer > big stabbas > spears > big uns upgrade > (Wurrzag, shaman and big boss in here) > > 20 savage orcs-180 > musician > banner > >
20 savage orcs-180 > musician > banner > >
10 savage orc boar boyz-220 > musician > banner > add hand weapons (wild abandon) > > 10
10savage orc boar boyz-220 > musician > banner > add hand weapons (wild abandon) > >
Gorkatrix > Giant-220 > Warpaint >
> Morkatrix > Giant-220 > Warpaint >

so i.appologise for the.layout.of them both... but theyre on my.ohone coppied from a word app...

anyway... the 1st list is 2k. my usual play level. the orc one is 2.5k... can remember what i dropped for a 2k... definatly the goblin shaman lol

what do you think of the.lists... and which...
a)will be more fun to play with?
b) will be most competative?
c) i can maje most originol?


as a background.ive.played both woc and.ogres.in fantasy and have played with ogres for... since the book before.last came out with loremaster level 2s :-P so im readdy for a change... lol

Why spears on the savage orcs? Additional hand weapons gives you the same amount of attacks and can be used on the charge. I think both lists lack chaff/redirectors which I think is needed when you are working with such big blocks pistoleers are good for that and I see some in the empire list but archers are cheap and skirmishers and make good redirectors. As for the the orcs you could go with single trolls.

Both lists have their own unique feeling in them as to A) Empire will more dark depressed feeling on them to get in melee and let them have it and not care about casualities and as orks more waaaaaghhhh crazier Aproach and bit more colour sheme variations for them as Empire bit dark´s theme?
B) As havnt played much vs orks cant say if that list really good or not but 2 great cannon magnets letting boars close in and work the rear and decent anvils/hammers,
But Empire needs bit tweaking as detachments the thing on "new" army book so atleast split one halberdies to 2 15man units to Gswods detas, stubborn hatred all around, pistoliers are really good at what they are made to be sideline harasment and i´d suggest give white cloack of Ulrick to WP going to Greatswords and other lore to wizard to give some buffs to units since they´ll get lots of beating before this list can get to work. But as keeping it in theme just means more deads before CC but who cares

C) Havn´t seen many grim looking Empires around they usually are so bright and jolly
And Savages can be so different looking so more options...

@Hargus... i know i reliesed that... id give them add hand wepons... not spears. i think in regaurd to the redirectors... id rather have pistoleers as i believe they can.do more damage... 2ndly how would i fit trolls in the list? what would you recomend?

@Lictor yea paint wise i think both would present me with interesting chalenges...

wwell.if i split the halbs up i wouldnt have my min troop requirement so.i cant do that...

what lore would you recomend? i thought shadow with its hexs would work better than buffs...

i was looking at splitting meterotic iron armour of destiny and enchanted shield on the wsrrior priests but i dont have the points...

if it helps...

my main opponents are... Lizarmen. Skaven. Tomb Kings...

With min troop requirement you mean you need atleast 3 units? which only requirement with choice point ranges. which you easily have unit of halps Gswords 2 units of pistoliers. that´s 4 already

For lores if vs really shooty armys like any elfs or empire/dwarfs light with upgraded Pha´s prot really nice but as you playing against those 3 beast or life for +toughness for gswords to survive the initial beating. as they really intend to die really quick with ASL.
"having my Gswords sitting in flame gage for 2 rounds till got charged by some 2 units and killed to man in 2 rounds of CC"
But as all Lores have their own punch nowdays it´s really what you prefer.
Also that dragon helm is really nice for bsb or any other char.

Hope any help

Ah right 520 with 80 those true true... well left overs for other halps to get the points..

But we play 8th now... so its percentages... i need 500pts of core.minimum... pistokeers and greatswords are soecial not core...

orcs are always more fun and more customizable. When the dice let you, they can be very competative as well. Their magic lore can be terrible, or it can cripple an army.

What point value are you playing? I ve used boar boyz and found them really lackluster in combat all of the goblin fast cav perform better and cheaper the same function, despite their fluffy nature.

Your warrrior priests will die before they can give their troops any benefit in my experience. Give them some magic armor or ward save (it can actually be difficult to get the ward save prayer off)

pistoliers are far superior, but probably more fun that outriders, still.

Orcs will be the most fun/frustrating to play games with and with a bit of tinkering can be fairly competative BUT they're not a top tier army by any stretch (unless you have lucky blue dice)

However saying that in my experience 36 is the optimum unit size for any Orc unit (6x6) thats including the characters so I would shave a few of those boys off and use the points for something.... fun like the trolls if you were so inclined

Maybe 2 single trolls to use as redirectors and chaff and personally I would do a unit of 6 as a hammer unit. With frenzy you will want chaff to deal with the enemy chaff and redirectors as well. While I respect Brother Malleus's advice and he knows more then me when it comes to orcs I'd try a 40+ horde of savage big uns and see what they can do, I know what my horde of gor can do I can only imagine what 50 S5 rerollable ('ere we go) attacks can do on the charge.

Hargus56 wrote:Maybe 2 single trolls to use as redirectors and chaff and personally I would do a unit of 6 as a hammer unit. With frenzy you will want chaff to deal with the enemy chaff and redirectors as well. While I respect Brother Malleus's advice and he knows more then me when it comes to orcs I'd try a 40+ horde of savage big uns and see what they can do, I know what my horde of gor can do I can only imagine what 50 S5 rerollable ('ere we go) attacks can do on the charge.

Its two different tactics with one unit admittedly, and ta for infalting the ego.

My personal preference is to make my Orc Units, cheap as possible while remaining steadfast for as long as possible so that I can fit in more support units, it is my playstyle, saying that there have been many times, typically against Beastmen players I have to admit where I have HAD to reform my unit into horde formation to get the extra attacks in so it is entirely flexible and OnG players probably more than most have to adapt their tactics on the fly so to speak, with the Savages in this formation you still have 30 models to attack and have 6 wounds before you start to lose attacks...so swings and roundabouts

As your list is primarily offensively based (compared to my defensive/counter list) I wouldn't recommend abadonning the idea of 40/50+ Savage Orcs completely as I have never tested the unit above 36 strong and long ago gave up on the idea of savage orcs completely as for me and my play sytle they're too expensive when you factor in all the other units/characters/upgrades that they require. I'd rather spend those points on squigs, doom divers, snotlings (yes thats right) pump wagons ect and not have to come up with a list that is planned around the one unit.

With the Trolls again Hargus has hit the nail on the head, single trolls can be extremely useful as chaff units and presents the opponant with a different set of challenges to that usually given to a flaming banner unit, most units are typically ranged and have 20+ models, do they take advantage of negating regen on a 35 point model or do they not use the banner and attempt to whittle down some of your larger unit? If you do go large unit of trolls (6+) I highly recommend the tricksy goblin tactic of a Goblin Warboss, LA, Shield, Dragonhelm/Dragonbane gem, stubborn hat and giant wolf and a cheap magic item to charge that flaming unit and tie them down for a turn or two (mine has held up a K'daai Destoryer and a Bloodthirster for a couple of turns taking them out of the game since you ahve to fail a few 2++ saves to lose him)

Something to consider

ok thankyou guys... i liked the idea of a giant horde and whilst i was litterally abouttto type. ok ill round the units to 40 each drop the boar boys and add in some spider riders... i just cant do it to myself lol i like a pure theme too much...

as for the emipre which i think are the ones ill be doing 1st...yes im aware the priests need armour... its just fitting.it in..

i mean how can i fit in the 100+points of armour?...

Drop the great cannon they always blow themselfs up at turn 1 anyway...

Drop.the cannon?! :O thats the 1st time anyones ever said that... lol