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As we all probably know there are heated debates going on right now regarding challenges and wound overflow and how it's handled. Well I'm not here to address that, well at least not directly. But the heart of the matter (well at least one)is cheap sacrificial units tarpitting close combat deathstars and what not with worthless challenges which no self respecting murder machine would take. I personally don't feel wound overflow should happen, but that is more of a RAI issue, and we all know that RAI doesn't mean a whole lot in the ultra competitive, tea bag your enemy at all costs world of 40k.

Instead what I propose is this: Assaulting units challenge as normal. Defending units can issue a challenge but the enemy can ignore it. I think it would make the challenges a little more realistic (which I'll go more into). It creates rewards for being a assaulter (fortune favors the bold) and creates a whole lot less challenges that need to be dealt with(potentially).

For my example I'll use Karanderus (sp?) with some Striking Scorpions vs some bog standard Imperial guard squad hoping to delay them.

Now Karanderus He doesn't give a flip about these incompetent try-hards standing between him and his prize (something no doubt squishy and full of firepower). The Sgt wants to slow him down so he steps forward, puts out a rude gesture and calls out for the least feminine member to fight him. Karanderus who has not only just already shot at these suicidal speed bumps (who are shooting at him in overwatch) but is already running up with his posse to tear some new poop shoots. Does he stop to take this challenge? No, he just tells his men to continue and save the Sgt for him.

I just think this sounds better than the alternative sometimes derpy defender challenges.

What do you guys think, Do you think it creates a hole in the rules that favors attackers too much? Are there story situations that would suddenly lose flavor? Am I just poor sport? I really am open to hearing how these house rules could potentially break the game.

Just for the record I'm a IG player and don't really benefit from these rules. I'm just thinking of bringing these up with my group, who play Eldar, Necrons, Orks and Tau.

Personally I don't see a problem with the challenge rule as it only applies to Independent Characters and makes them more accountable in combat situations. There are always going to be beatstick heroes who nobody in their right mind would want to fight, but that's just the nature of the beast sadly.

To me the current rules work. If an IC wusses out of a challenge he isn't going to shrug it off and keep fighting whomever cause the other hero is just gonna leap at him whether he likes it or not, so the challenged hero who wussed out needs to step back to create a wall between him and the challenger so he doesn't have to deal with him.

The rule is supposed to be cinematic, not realistic. Darth Vader versus some Rebel Captain that calls him out isn't a fair fight, but it still makes for a damn good scene.

Hmm, what if the house rule only worked with guys who aren't Independent or named Characters. Like the example with the no name Sgt?

pie zuri wrote:Hmm, what if the house rule only worked with guys who aren't Independent or named Characters. Like the example with the no name Sgt?

If we're talking House Rules then you and your group need to come up with something that makes sense to the group and is fair to everyone in the group.

Personally I can't see why Karandras wouldn't accept, he'd slaughter the poor Sergeant in a single turn. Sure if he gets more wounds than he knows what to do with those wounds are wasted, but such is the price of going Wayne Brady on people.

If you really, really want something, I could offer a suggestion:

Instead of simply letting characters ignore challenges, make it so that characters of a weaker station (non-Independent Characters vs Independent Characters) need to pass a Leadership test. If the test is failed the challenger wusses out from his challenge and can't issue one.

Another alternative is that, in circumstances where non-Independent Characters challenge Independent Characters, the Independent Character does not retreat if he refuses, but stays where he is and the challenger simply moves in base-to-base contact with him (Stubborn, Fearless, and ATSKNF models always pass this test).

The problem I have with the second suggestion though is that it gives Independent Characters a wide berth again, making them able to easily kill entire squads in hand-to-hand with no downsides unless the enemy squad has an IC as well.

No names can still get a guaranteed challenge (or enemy wimping out), they would just need to do it on their turn as opposed to waiting for it to come to them.

As far as the cinematic end goes. I see it still being cinematic having Karanderus ignoring the challenge of a no name and just going for it.

Really, the example is flawed, as the Scorpions would murder the group regardless of Karanderus's involvement or not.

I guess in the end, I really just benefit from things staying the same.

I can definitively see your points though.