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Hey Guys,
It seems as though there is some confusion about choosing your Psychic powers versus rolling for your Psychic powers.
The was I read it is like this ...

You can either..
A. Buy your powers out of your appropriate codex and use them as stated in your codex.

or

B. You can purchase no powers out of your Codex and then roll ramndomly from the chosen Discipline ( s ) out of the BRB and follow the guide for swapping and choosing from the random rolls.

Reason I ask is because ..

This weekend I took on an Eldar player who took Eldrad and PURCHASED the SAME GUIDE POWER 4 TIMES and then rolled 4 times on the Telepathy table .
When I voiced that i thought he might have been doing that wrong, he stated that thats what the BRB said to do.

It just seemed a little against the "Spirit of the Game"..

Please post back...

BTW.. He used the Warlock Conceal with a unit of 10 wraithguard that had Eldrad attached to it and then used "Invisibility" to give them a 2+ cover save out in the open...pretty sneaky....No worries though, my NECRONS destroyed his army by the end of the game. He had Eldrad, a Warlock and one Wraithguard left on the board. I had lost one 10 man unit of Immortals and 14 warriors by the end of game..

Thanks Guys,
Andyman

I don't have the Eldar Codex, but I am fairly certain that the wording there is the same as my C:CSM (they are from the same edition) - you cannot purchase the same power more than once. So according to the BRB, yes, he can do that. But according to his codex, no he cannot. And guess what? Codex > BRB, even when it isn't beneficial!

You can either use codex powers or rulebook powers. If you use rulebook powers you generally get 1 roll per power known. Eldrad knows 5 powers, however, only gets 4 if he uses rulebook powers.

So, can you pick and choose which powers to replace, or if you choose to replace you must replace them all?

Example, your unit has 4 available powers via their codex. Can you keep 1 useful one, and roll 3, or are you required to swap out all 4?

My initial understanding was you could pick and choose, but I'm beginning to doubt that now.

So do you agree that you either Buy and use out of codex or not purchase and roll in the BRB?

It is codex or rulebook, however, it its on a model by model basis.

Yes, you either buy the ones you want from your codex, or you buy the cheapest ones and then replace them ALL with ones from the BRB (getting less in some cases - Ahriman, Eldrad, etc). This is not in the BRB, but in each Codex's FAQ under buying psychic powers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Happyjew is right - each model gets to pick where his powers come from.

Because it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to PURCHASE the powers at a given cost and then roll RANDOMLY on a table.

Also isnt Eldrad only a lvl 2 but because he can purchase 4 powers he can either roll 4 times on his table ( s ) or PURCHASE 4 powers, only getting to use a MAX of 3 per turn...( i.e. he is lvl 2 allowing 2 powers, but the wargear lets him use an additional power per turn...correct?

Hey Rules Lawyers.....Chime in on this one please!!!

Eldrad is mastery level 3. He knows all 5 Eldar powers, however, if he uses rulebook powers he only gets 4.

Gotcha, so I can't choose to keep hypnotic gaze on my broodlord, and then roll the second power out of the book. Bummer, that decreases their coolness, since hypnotic gaze is so pro in challenges.

An Eldar player must purchase 1-4 powers from the codex for his farseer. He may then either choose to keep all of those powers, or he may then choose to trade in all of those powers for rolls on the BRB powers tables. I don't really see any specific language forcing them to buy unique powers from the codex.

Eldrad's codex powers are predefined so he doe's not get to choose them. Like a farseer, he may choose to trade all of them in for 4 rolls on the BRB powers tables (yes he gets screwed out of a roll). In the FAQ he is defined as mastery level 3 and it is noted that that includes the bonus from spirit stones.

@FarseerAndyMan - In order to roll on the random table, you need to have purchased powers from your codex.

Eldrad, as pointed out by Happyjew, doesn't need to purchase powers, as they are included in his cost (much like Ahriman from CSM). However, he only gets to roll 4 times, and as a Master level 3, can only case 3 of them a turn! (or less if he gets a 2 warp charge spell like Invisibility!)

So to address your initial concern - Eldrad "purchasing" guide 4 times was probably an added cost to your opponents model that did not need to be there, as Eldrad doesn't need to purchase powers. Second, yes, he should have gotten 4 rolls on the table. Third, Invisibility costs 2 warp charge, of which Eldrad only has 3, so at most he should have casting 2 spells a turn.

What it sounds like is that your opponent was cheating himself in points, and because you though he was ML 2 he probably didn't cast more than 2 spells a turn, so he wasn't cheating you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Maelstrom808 - I don't have the Eldar codex, but does it really not have any wording limiting you from purchasing the same power more than once?

Hmm.. reading through my C:CSM I don't see any wording limiting my choice, other than the ambiguously worded "may choose one additional power [from the list]". I guess if you were to get into semantics, RAW doesn't prevent you from taking the same power more than once. RAI obviously you weren't meant to though, because you can't use the same power more than once a turn (pg 67 BRB).

Eldrad has no permission to purchase powers....

@nosferatu1001 - Thus why I was saying that his opponent cheated himself out of some points, especially since Eldrad already got 4 rolls on the Telepathy table!

I can only speak for Nids, but we buy powers when we build our list.
Once you show up to the game you can then choose on a per model basis if you are going to swap out powers from the Codex for the BRB. One roll per power traded in, but it can befrom Biomancy, TK or Telepathy.
Gives Nids a slight tactical advantage in tournys. We can see what army we are playing against before deciding to swap powers. If I see flyers I go for TK. I see hordes I give everyone Shriek. (Note the reason I can say "give" is becasue it is the Primaris power and I can always default to it.)

So any thoughts on Tigurius? He knows "all the psychic powers available to Space Marine Librarians". Does he then get 9 random powers if he chooses to swap them out, or does he get three because that's his mastery level? Does he get the 9 SM powers, the 6 pyro, 2 tele and the 6 biomancy powers as they're technically "available" to sm librarians?

Almarine wrote:So any thoughts on Tigurius? He knows "all the psychic powers available to Space Marine Librarians". Does he then get 9 random powers if he chooses to swap them out, or does he get three because that's his mastery level? Does he get the 9 SM powers, the 6 pyro, 2 tele and the 6 biomancy powers as they're technically "available" to sm librarians?

He gets 3 as that is what the FAQ states. (SM FAQ pg2). All the other librarians generate 2.

Gloomfang wrote:

Almarine wrote:So any thoughts on Tigurius? He knows "all the psychic powers available to Space Marine Librarians". Does he then get 9 random powers if he chooses to swap them out, or does he get three because that's his mastery level? Does he get the 9 SM powers, the 6 pyro, 2 tele and the 6 biomancy powers as they're technically "available" to sm librarians?

He gets 3 as that is what the FAQ states. (SM FAQ pg2). All the other librarians generate 2.

Right. Got a bit ahead of myself there lol.

[Sarcasm]
Aww, but obviously since C:SM was written by Matt Ward Tigurius was meant to be most special butterfly ever and obviously should have the 9 SM powers or be able to trade them all in for 9 BRB powers!
[/Sarcasm]

And so the great move from Narrativehammer to Psykerhammer begins!

On a side note that would actually be pretty cool. I am now imagining Tigurius vs wave upon wave of enemies. He would of course need Mastery Level 10, and cost somewhere around 800 points...

With a 1+ Invulnerable save, immunity to perils and automatically passes psychic tests?

Nah, lets not make him TOO overpowered. He isn't the Emperor after all!

DMajiko wrote:[Sarcasm]
Aww, but obviously since C:SM was written by Matt Ward Tigurius was meant to be most special butterfly ever and obviously should have the 9 SM powers or be able to trade them all in for 9 BRB powers!
[/Sarcasm]

And so the great move from Narrativehammer to Psykerhammer begins!

On a side note that would actually be pretty cool. I am now imagining Tigurius vs wave upon wave of enemies. He would of course need Mastery Level 10, and cost somewhere around 800 points...

Oddly enough, it was Forge World that dropped the ball on that one, as Severin Loth gets 6 of the new powers in addition to keeping his unique power.

And 2nd edition was already Psykerhammer.

So, if i understand this thread correctly...

First...

We all agree that you either use BRB powers or Codex Powers per Psyker. ( i.e. if he wants to use BRB powers, he just uses BRB powers )

Next ...

You CAN purchase GUIDE 4 times as a Farseer and then trade them in for 4 rolls in the BRB. ( seems a little chincy and underhanded )...
And If ELDRAD wants to use BRB powers, he just rolls 4 dice and picks as stated in the BRB. (Arguably the most powerful Psyker in the GALAXY, but just cant seem to make up his mind before battle...)

Do I have that right?

I honestly don't know anyone who would argue that a Farseer can purchase the same power multiple times. Granted the wording is a little screwy.

As an Eldar player I'd like to remove any confusion, Eldrad gets 5 codex powers included in the 210 point cost that you pay to field him, he can trade those 5 powers in for 4 total roles on the powers chart from the 6Th Ed rule book. He can roll in the Divination set, and the Telepathy set. He has a mastery rating of 3, giving him three warp charges. A regular Farseer pays for each of the codex powers that he/she can take to a total of 4 different powers, (so you cannot buy guide 4 times at 20 points each) which would give them 4 total roles on the powers chart from the 6Th Ed rule book. These can be again from Divination, or Telepathy.

Ahtleus wrote:As an Eldar player I'd like to remove any confusion, Eldrad gets 5 codex powers included in the 210 point cost that you pay to field him, he can trade those 5 powers in for 4 total roles on the powers chart from the 6Th Ed rule book. He can roll in the Divination set, and the Telepathy set. He has a mastery rating of 3, giving him three warp charges. A regular Farseer pays for each of the codex powers that he/she can take to a total of 4 different powers, (so you cannot buy guide 4 times at 20 points each) which would give them 4 total roles on the powers chart from the 6Th Ed rule book. These can be again from Divination, or Telepathy.

This 1+.

Thanks for weighing in on this one guys!!

I think we are all clear on this matter now

:-)