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Daemons picked up the first of the Codex updates from white dwarf. The update contains a few new models and a couple updates to current units. We have a total of four entries altogether.

Lets look at the new stuff first.

Hellflayers of Slaanesh:

This is the new fast attack choice. It also uses the new chariot unit type.
The unit consists of a character and the chariot. The character is basically a Harald of Slaanesh without the choice of upgrades. The chariot is designed to smash into units, dealing 1 or 2 D6 Str 4 Hammer of Wrath attacks. That can turn out to be a lot of damage on a tactical squad.

What we like about this unit:
It’s fast: able to hit units quickly and precisely.
It hits hard: up to 12 Hammer of wrath attacks plus the rending attacks from its IC at initiative 6.
Its annoying hit and run means this guy can charge on every turn.

What we don’t like about this unit:

Its glass jaw, open top and its on the low end on hull point and armor value. It won’t last long to shooting
Its Character can’t disembark. If you loose your ride you die, its sad really.

see an overview of the rest of the units here:

http://tomahawc.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/daemons-updates-komosunder/

Well, against MEQs....

12 hits
after toughness check, 6 wounds
after armor save, 1.98 wounds

I must be missing something, because that doesn't look like hitting hard to me at all. I know there's the other attacks by the herald (don't know his stats).

Suppose it's better than I imagine, if it's a vehicle that means no invuln (as far as I know, been awhile since I fought a grinder). If it's FA 11 it might be decent, but I hope it's not too expensive because a cheap lascannon here or there could decommission it the turn it comes in, unless it can assault like snikkrot.

I would think you would need to run them with grinders to put up some sort of a "don't shoot me first!" situation, or just hope the board has cover you can deepstrike in behind then fly over.

I also don't get why he says having a large base is a good thing. I've seen many a daemon players plans laid to ruin because he landed on a tree or rock.

Does anyone know if this will be updated through the FAQ as well, or will you have to have the Codex and WD only?

I can't see why I would bother starting CD if I need to have the WD if I don't have that issue. So much model sales will not get done if we can't use them then.

Those HoW attacks also have rending. The amount of D6 being the remaining hull points, the exalted getting 4D6 if it hits undamaged.

The fast attack one by the way, has the Soulscent rule which gives the rider bonus attacks equal to the amount of unsaved wounds caused by those HoW attacks. Which gets to a maximum of 12 due to that chariot variant only having 2hp to start with. Personally I'm not sure which of the three I like, but the fast attack one is the least liked. For starters unlike the normal chariots it is in the FA slot which makes it compete a bit with seekers themselves. It is also a solo unit, where as the others run in groups of 1-3. It also has the same durability as the normal chariot, but trades in its fleet and an additional 20 points for the ability to be forever alone and do up to 12 additional attacks; which will likely in most cases get around 4-6 at most.

Flamers and Screamers - You missed that you get additional wounds as well now - 2W for flamers and screamers. While the screamers dont rip LR to shreds like they used to, they are good against anything to AV13, AV14 at a push (double the number of attacks is a good thing!

Snikrot CANNOT assault the turn he arrives.

Necroshea wrote:Suppose it's better than I imagine, if it's a vehicle that means no invuln (as far as I know, been awhile since I fought a grinder). If it's FA 11 it might be decent, but I hope it's not too expensive because a cheap lascannon here or there could decommission it the turn it comes in, unless it can assault like snikkrot.

you mean Zagstruk, right?

Those new chariots look stupid. And the rules are stupid.

Yay! A bad ass second turn charge! If you survived the shooting phase beforehand.

Armour 11, open topped? Krak Grenades should make quick work of that.

Anyone knowif the Flamers are larger than their metal/resin kin?

My roommate is almost finished collecting his Daemon army and he still needs 4 Flamers.

I'd rather he didn't screw himself buying larger targets than he needs to.

The flamers are the same size. The only difference is their mouths I think. Although they are now 12pts cheaper each with +1 wound and initiative. You can also upgrade to a char for only A few points but he only gets +1 attack which for a non cc unit, I don't really get

Just read another post and something I missed was mentioned. Flamers no longer get a save RAW. The update never gave them a save and technically the update overides the brb which overides the codex. I'm sure that is a mistake but RAW.....

Don't daemons get a 5+ save by default now? Perhaps thats where their save is coming from?

Reanimator wrote:Don't daemons get a 5+ save by default now? Perhaps thats where their save is coming from?

your correct good sir. Having looked at the brb again all daemons get a 5++. But no 4++ anymore. Bit of a nerf but given the pluses I suppose you can't complain

But ... don't demons of Tzeentch all have the mark of Tzeentch?

Noisy_Marine wrote:But ... don't demons of Tzeentch all have the mark of Tzeentch?

Nope. Outside of Daemon Princes, nothing in the Codex: Daemons gets a mark of chaos.

Flamers & Screamers are now just the basic 5++ invuln for being 'daemonic' as per our codex special rules. Some people might complain, but gaining a wond each and the other buffs have really made these two units into something truely fierce!

That second wound is amazing.

Upgrade to a pyrocaster and put him in front for 4+ look out sir. Every time you fail, he takes a wound. Every time you pass, you decide where the wound goes, so you can divvy out wounds to individual models to prevent any whole models from dying.

If 4+ isn't good enough for you, put a herald in there to 2+ look out sir and spread those wounds around.

GW failed to eliminate wound allocation shenanigans in 6th, they've just made it so you have to involve characters!

Flamers & Screamers are now just the basic 5++ invuln for being 'daemonic' as per our codex special rules. Some people might complain, but gaining a wond each and the other buffs have really made these two units into something truely fierce!

What bothers me is how they technically don't - the rule "daemon" is two different things. A usr in the rule book vs a codex special rule. Now by FAQ 1.0 the codex special rule "daemon" now includes Fear (but the basic 5++ isn't mentioned). The rest of the codex rule stays the same (deployment, eternal warrior, fearless).

Therefore a strict RAW read, FAQ 1.0 considered, would be that none of the new/modified daemons get a save at all (which is silly, and I can't imagine anyone playing it that way.)

Also, the new chariots are vehicles. With a save value of "-". Which is confusing, because this is assumed to mean that they benefit from the daemon usr (makes sense gaming wise). At the same time, a soul grinder is a vehicle that has the "daemon" codex rule. A soul grinder is specifically FAQ:ed to include the "Fear" special rule, (but not the 5++ save) in the same way that the rest of the daemons are FAQ:d to include Fear but not mentioning 5++. And it's not very clear what is intended for grinders, the only way to read it as of now is, NO grinders don't get the save, but it's a guess at best since the whole daemon rule is in dire need of clarification.

bottom line is daemons don't get the USR Daemon added on top of the codex rule Daemon, by FAQ it's just the Fear part. Which is sloppy and strange that they didn't just adress immediately.

Having played against a daemon army yesterday with 2 9-model units of the new screamers, they are very good. Being jetbikes, they can turbo boost when they arrive for a 4+ jink save, and with 4 S5 AP2 attacks per model on the charge, and additional Hammer of Wrath hits, almost anything they touch will evaporate. As my terminators found out