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Can allies of convince be scoring units?

The BRB says they are treated like enemy units that you cant charge, shoot, etc... but also makes a note of saying that desperate allies are not scoring/denial units.

Allies of Convenience can be scoring and denial per the usual criteria.

As you saw, the rules for Desperate Allies specifically tell us that ON TOP of the limitations for Allies of Convenience, Desp. Allies aren't even scoring or denial units.

Mannahnin wrote:Allies of Convenience can be scoring and denial per the usual criteria.

As you saw, the rules for Desperate Allies specifically tell us that ON TOP of the limitations for Allies of Convenience, Desp. Allies aren't even scoring or denial units.

But they never state that they are scoring/denial units, in fact they state that they are to be treated like enemy units... how do enemy units score?

Stating that the rules for desperate allies says they are not scoring/denial units only proves that GW forgot to specify about AoC.

It's implicit, rather than explicit. It's still perfectly clear.

By stating that this additional penalty applies to D.A., above and beyond the restrictions on AoC, they make clear by exclusion that this penalty doesn't apply to AoC.

You may be correct, but you haven't addressed how you can treat them like enemy units and consider them friendly scoring units at the same time.

if you have a single model from your primary detachment and a single model from your AoC, withing 3" of the same objective. The model form your primary detachment would treat the AoC model as an enemy, denying him the objective. All because "units in your army treat allies of convenience as enemy units that can not be charged, shot,...'

To avoid weirdness like that, take the rules for what they say and treat AoC as enemy models.

Azrell wrote:You may be correct, but you haven't addressed how you can treat them like enemy units and consider them friendly scoring units at the same time.

I think the key here is that your units treat the Allies of Convenience as enemy units. This means that your units cannot target them with blessings, join their ICs to them, end their move within 1" of them etc...
However, this does not mean that they are enemies. They are in your army, therefore they are friendly. It is only your units that treat them as enemies so they can still be scoring/denial.

That's my interpretation of the rules. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Azrell wrote:You may be correct, but you haven't addressed how you can treat them like enemy units and consider them friendly scoring units at the same time.

if you have a single model from your primary detachment and a single model from your AoC, withing 3" of the same objective. The model form your primary detachment would treat the AoC model as an enemy, denying him the objective. All because "units in your army treat allies of convenience as enemy units that can not be charged, shot,...'

To avoid weirdness like that, take the rules for what they say and treat AoC as enemy models.

Well, this would be pretty bad - I think the poster above me made a good judgement call on this issue.

Azrell wrote:You may be correct, but you haven't addressed how you can treat them like enemy units and consider them friendly scoring units at the same time.

if you have a single model from your primary detachment and a single model from your AoC, withing 3" of the same objective. The model form your primary detachment would treat the AoC model as an enemy, denying him the objective. All because "units in your army treat allies of convenience as enemy units that can not be charged, shot,...'

To avoid weirdness like that, take the rules for what they say and treat AoC as enemy models.

The rule says that in addition to the rules for AoC, Desperate Allies cannot score or deny. If AoC were already not able to score/deny this additional phrase is redundant. You cannot assume redundancy but have to take the rules for what they are. Every troop choice in your force/army is a scoring unit unless a rule says they are not. This is covered in the claiming objectives section. AoC do not say they are not so they are. Does it make 100% sense, yes in fact it even makes sense in rl. And the rules support it.

Can you respell Allies on Convenience? It's kinda bugging me...

Anyways, I don't think they are scoring since they should be treated as neutral units

The rules say for battle brothers they are friendly in every way so the reverse must be true for AoC...

Azrell wrote:The rules say for battle brothers they are friendly in every way so the reverse must be true for AoC...

Fallacy of Excluded Middle.

Azrell wrote:The rules say for battle brothers they are friendly in every way so the reverse must be true for AoC...

Like Nos said this is a fallacy. The rules for scoring units are clear, unless a special rule says otherwise any troop choice is a scoring unit. Only desperate allies are not scoring.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makutsu wrote:Can you respell Allies on Convenience? It's kinda bugging me...

Anyways, I don't think they are scoring since they should be treated as neutral units

Making up rules. They should be treated as the rules say they are treated; as scoring units.