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Some of their higher-ups look like vampires, they have an entire company that is completely over-wealmed by rage. I know the Astartes are allowed lee-way when other sectors of the Imperium are not, but the Blood Angels seem to be above and beyond what any of the other marine chapters have done.

It seems like the Inquisition would look very dimly on this, unlike other scuffles this would not be because of ruffled feathers or a natural distrust of authority, rather because the entire chapter would seem, to outsiders, to be Khornite.

So why haven't they been squashed yet?

1) They are one of the original chapters. They're an institution of the Imperium. Inertia is a powerful ally.
2) They still fight for mankind. If the Blood Angels are coming, it's to save you.
3) The Blood Angels do a good job of covering up their weirder habits. The Astartes in general are pretty independent from the Inquisition.
4) As you've said, Astartes get a free pass. Despite the fact that the Imperium has a dim view of mutants and psychics, Astartes are allowed into the party despite being transhuman weirdos.
5) The Inquisition can't afford to piss the Astartes off that much. They need the Blood Angels. They also need the Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Crimson and Imperial Fists, and all the others. If the Inquisition started meddling in the affairs of chapters that are still basically fighting for the Imperium, they might catch some trouble from the other chapters, either out of loyalty or fear of what the Inquisition will find if it digs in their closets.

6) Everyone knows that vampires aren't real... so the Inquisition just assumes that the BAs are a bunch of emo cosplayers...

Don't forget, again, the Astartes aren't part of the Imperium. Each chapter is it's own thing, has its own rules, and basically just pays as much respect to the Imperium as it wants to. Some get away with more due to their standing, though it takes serious balls and influence for an Inquisitor to take down a chapter for anything but the most blatant heresy. First founding chapters basically get away with the most due to their long history.

Hell, the Space Wolves have gotten away with straight up murdering an Inquisitor because Grimnar didn't like what he was being told.

Well, BA is sorta incriminated: Flesh Tearers.
BA is just more subtle (though subtle is not the term I'd use to describe death company)

When it happens to the Space Wolves, then the Blood Angels would have to worry about being next, til then its because they're from the original legions and plot armor.

 SaintTom wrote:
When it happens to the Space Wolves, then the Blood Angels would have to worry about being next, til then its because they're from the original legions and plot armor.

So if you're from the original legions, you can commit heresy just fine?

I only say that because for all intents and purposes, the Death company *are* heretics.

And just look at this guy:



I mean. That's a mutant. Right there. Clearly a bad egg to boot.

How is Astorath a mutant exactly? What "heresy" are you referring to?

The Blood Angels also do not have "an entire company that is completely over-wealmed by rage." The Death Company is a separate part of the Chapter's organization, not a proper Company.

The High Lords of Terra are well aware of the Flaw, though. They know that it is slowly destroying the Blood Angels and their successors and have deemed that it is punishment enough for their slights against the other branches of the Imperium. Some successors have already been destroyed by the Flaw (such as the Flesh Eaters), some are on the verge of destruction because of it (Flesh Tearers), some are rarely at full strength because of it (Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine), and some have been excommunicated due possibly to atrocities committed by their fallen (Knights of Blood).

I honestly believe that you do not understand what the Black Rage or the Red Thirst is, or you're just trolling.

I don't see how the Blood Angels are above other chapters. The Blood Angels keep their issues in check unlike the Flesh Tearers who have a hard time keeping it in check when it comes to their allies. Astaroth's purpose is to kill the Death Company members if they live after their "final battle." This ensures that the Death Company always stays in small numbers. This isn't to say that every battle includes Death Company (although it seems that way because of the tabletop), but a lot of the time they do right before battle.

Its interesting to note that the Lamenters have seemingly overcome the flaw, but seem to have gotten bad luck because of it.

I presume that the BA's successor chapters wouldn't take a positive view on anyone slagging off their parent chapter.

ElectricPaladin wrote:The Inquisition can't afford to piss the Astartes off that much. They need the Blood Angels. They also need the Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Crimson and Imperial Fists, and all the others. If the Inquisition started meddling in the affairs of chapters that are still basically fighting for the Imperium, they might catch some trouble from the other chapters, either out of loyalty or fear of what the Inquisition will find if it digs in their closets.

That's a bit far-fetched, now. The Inquisition has been offing entire Chapters left and right if it felt the need to do so, and since they are arguably more closer to the Imperium (indeed, acting with the Emperor's own authority) than the Astartes, any Chapter that would feel bound to help their condemned brethren would invariably find itself drawn into a civil war with an entity they've sworn to protect, and in a conflict they have no chance at actually winning. I'm pretty sure any Chapter Master would think twice about this.

Here's a small example of Inquisitorial backstabbing: http://web.archive.org/web/20070202084000/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/clions.html

What is keeping the Blood Angels somewhat save is, indeed, their loyalty. They are a big asset to the Imperium and have proven themselves reliable and, at times, crucial in the past. They are somewhat scary to be around, but all in all their track record grants them quite a bit of leeway from both the High Lords as well as the Inquisition. It's like some sort of balance of how weird you are vs how much the Imperium values you.

The only "odd man out" really is just the Space Wolves, who can apparently get away with anything they want and have a squabble with about every single Imperial Adeptus in existence with next to no repercussions whatsoever, which makes them even more special compared to any other Space Marine Chapter out there than they already are by virtue of their exceptional culture and abilities alone.

-Loki- wrote:Hell, the Space Wolves have gotten away with straight up murdering an Inquisitor because Grimnar didn't like what he was being told.

That just happened in some BL novel, though, didn't it?
Huge difference between murdering a bunch of priests and murdering an Inquisitor. I would hope that GW fluff isn't so far gone that even the SW would get away with the latter just like that. Then again, the SW can apparently beat back the forces of an entire Segmentum, so who knows.

The Inquisition can't afford to off one of the original founding Legions though.

Not only would they have all of the chapter's successors show up, but they would also have many of the original Legions show up too(with all their successors)

And killing an Inquisitor isn't a huge deal. Said Inquisitor probably had enemies in the Inquisition, they probably smoothed stuff over or deliberatly sent him to deal with the wolves to get rid of him.



I mean, the Ultramarines would probably show up for just about everybody(and that means just about every SM chapter in existance)

The Space Wolves would show up for everyone except the DAs.



I think the only founding chapter the Inquisition could take out without having the entirety of the Adeptus Astartes coming down on their heads would be the DAs, because they arn't friends with anyone in the Imperium really.

The Inquisition has neither the time nor the manpower to cleanse an entire Chapter. The Blood Angels patrol the Flaw themselves and the Inquisition doesn't HAVE to step in. Once a BA succumbs to the Black Rage they are killed in battle or killed after the battle. They are doing the Inquisition's job for them by cleaning up after themselves.

Not to mention with Demartes being able to control it there is hope that they can stop the madness and benefit from the Red Thirst without all the death of the Black Rage.

I often wondered how the BA's got away with having guys with WINGS exist. I understand that Sanguinus had wings so
i guess he got a pass, along with all the other ODD traits some of the other Primarchs had. However in a society that ABHORES mutations that sorta things would be frowned uppon. I can only assume that Blood Angles Sprouting wings is a GIFT from Sanguinus and a cultist sprouting wings is a GIFT OF CHAOS and MUST BE PURGED!!!

Dooley wrote:
I often wondered how the BA's got away with having guys with WINGS exist. I understand that Sanguinus had wings so
i guess he got a pass, along with all the other ODD traits some of the other Primarchs had. However in a society that ABHORES mutations that sorta things would be frowned uppon. I can only assume that Blood Angles Sprouting wings is a GIFT from Sanguinus and a cultist sprouting wings is a GIFT OF CHAOS and MUST BE PURGED!!!

None of them have wings, those are super-fancy jump-packs. The only one with wings is the Sanguinor, who only appears in the midst of battle.

Honestly, although the BA have some rage issues, it's nothing compared to Wolves running around with huge canines, murdering ecclesiarchy and inquisition members, and fighting off segmentum fleets somehow. Blood Angels still adhere to Imperial authority, more or less, and purging them would also alienate all of their various successors. Like someone else in this thread said earlier, while the Wolves are free to roam, no Chapter that isn't full-on renegade has to worry about Inquisitorial scrutiny.

i think you guys miss-understand what a mutant is to the IoM. A mutant is a person with unstable mutations. Humans with stable mutation have been used by the IoM since the beginning. Navigators, Ogryn, Squats, hell read the BRB and there is a whole section on it

Captain Antivas wrote:The Inquisition has neither the time nor the manpower to cleanse an entire Chapter.

It happens. Be it by indirect action (see the Celestial Lions example posted) or more directly and forceful. All they have to do is yell "mutants!" and point the Adepta Sororitas their way. The Orders Militant have equipment stored for specifically these occasions, and purging Chapters condemned by the Inquisition was in fact a battle narrative in the Witchhunters Codex.

It's just not a decision made lightly. Well, most of the time. I'm sure you are familiar with the incident concerning the Sons of Malice.

Dooley wrote:I often wondered how the BA's got away with having guys with WINGS exist. I understand that Sanguinus had wings so i guess he got a pass, along with all the other ODD traits some of the other Primarchs had.

Maybe that's it - the Imperium could go along with it thinking "The Emperor considered it okay, so who are we to condemn them". There have been statues of a winged Sanguinius for ten thousand years, and people just grow up with it.

Also, I suppose that "wings" are generally considered less offensive than other, more seemingly "evil" traits. Cherubim have wings. Seraphim have wings. The Emperor Himself might often be depicted with wings on artwork and statues. Wings are cool.
Humans simply are susceptible to first impressions like that. In our real world, the nastiest lying backstabbing immoral politician can get away with anything as long as he has a charismatic smile and dresses well, whereas the true samaritan is shunned for having acne.

Omegus wrote:None of them have wings, those are super-fancy jump-packs. The only one with wings is the Sanguinor, who only appears in the midst of battle.

Oh, I actually forgot that.
Thanks for pointing it out.

Some slight mutations and occasional insanity are not enough to counter 10000 years of loyal and highly dependable service to the Golden Throne.

It's all very well saying that they're loyal, but the inquisition don't really care about that - plenty of people appear loyal but have inwardly fallen to chaos, and the inquisition punishes them for it.

If there was a gaurd regiment, a few of whom were deranged pyscopaths obsessed with blood, and daubed themselves black before battle, and the rest of their regiment tried to cover for them...I honestly don't think they'd last too long.

Blood Angels? Come on, the Grey Knights murdered a bunch of nuns and covered themselves in their blood, not to mention that every single one of them is a Psyker to some degree. And the Inquisition has no problem working hand in hand with them everyday.

dkellyj wrote:
Blood Angels? Come on, the Grey Knights murdered a bunch of nuns and covered themselves in their blood, not to mention that every single one of them is a Psyker to some degree. And the Inquisition has no problem working hand in hand with them everyday.

Granted, I'm fairly sure that's because the Grey Knights practically ARE the Inquisition.

"Political clout" does exist in 40k. Being a Guardsman confers none, being a Space Marine gives you some degree of immunity. Being an Inquisitor means you can get away with a lot.

Omegus wrote:
None of them have wings, those are super-fancy jump-packs. The only one with wings is the Sanguinor, who only appears in the midst of battle.

The Sanguinor also has a jump pack. Its the same style as the Sanguinary Guard jump pack. The only Blood Angel that had wings was in James Swallow's Blood Angels series and that was due to Chaos corruption.

Testify wrote:It's all very well saying that they're loyal, but the inquisition don't really care about that - plenty of people appear loyal but have inwardly fallen to chaos, and the inquisition punishes them for it.

If there was a gaurd regiment, a few of whom were deranged pyscopaths obsessed with blood, and daubed themselves black before battle, and the rest of their regiment tried to cover for them...I honestly don't think they'd last too long.

Loyalty may not be what the Inquisition cares about, but doing something wrong is. The Blood Angels haven't done anything to incite the Inquisition to action aside for having a geneseed that is deeply flawed. Sure they pissed off the Mechanicum a couple times, but no one cares about those nerds.

By what you're suggesting the Blood Angels are corrupt because they have the Death Company. Well wouldn't that mean the Space Wolves are corrupt because they have the Wulfen? Are the Raven Guard corrupt because they all eventually lose skin pigmentation and their eyes blacken? Are the Salamanders corrupt because their skin turns an obsidian black? The answer to all of these questions is no. No they are not. Having traces of the Primarch in the Legion is not a sign of corruption or treachery.

Again, I don't think you understand that the Flaw is something that the Blood Angels self regulate and it HAS been known about by the Inquisition and the High Lords of Terra for some time. Both groups know that it can be dangerous (just like the Space Wolves' Canis Helix), but isn't worth losing such an effective fighting force over. In time the issue will correct itself, anyways. All Angels fall eventually.

Haunter! wrote:The only Blood Angel that had wings was in James Swallow's Blood Angels series and that was due to Chaos corruption.

There was also that Sanguinius guy.

Other than what has already been mentioned, remember that much of the fluff in the codexes and elsewhere that we take for granted is not common knowledge amongst a great majority of the imperial citizenry, even amongst the more elite elements of that society.

Much of the Imperium thinks of the Astartes only in vague generalities, so citizens may even question their existence let alone certain issues.

Even within a Marine Chapter, many Marines are not wholly aware of other chapters and their proclivities. The senior officers may, but I think the average Ultramarine does NOT know about the problems associated with the Blood Angels geneseed.

It is not completely clear that the Imperial bureaucracy is entirely aware about the issues, and the fact that those that do give a pass to the Chapter is indicative of something deeper within the Imperium. Aberration is not wholly abhorred, a secret the higher ups in the Imperium like to keep under wraps I think. Senior officials have even experimented with "proscribed" geneseed (if you believe the rumours) at one time or another as well.
.

dkellyj wrote:
Blood Angels? Come on, the Grey Knights murdered a bunch of nuns and covered themselves in their blood, not to mention that every single one of them is a Psyker to some degree. And the Inquisition has no problem working hand in hand with them everyday.

The Grey Knights are higher up the pillar then even the Inquisition. No one save the Empra or maybe the High lords of Terra could call for their execution. And only an idiot would since the Grey Knights are based in the Terra system and would just go tell the Empra on the High Lords and then kill them all. Maybe If the high Lord sent all of the Assassins after them they could take them out but unlikely. And Hell the Dark Angels have gotten away with having half of their legion falling to chaos and time after time ditching their allies in battle to go chasing the fallen. Also good luck taking out the Space wolves since they are still the only Legion still operating as close to one fighting force when they fell like it.

 Lynata wrote:

ElectricPaladin wrote:The Inquisition can't afford to piss the Astartes off that much. They need the Blood Angels. They also need the Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Crimson and Imperial Fists, and all the others. If the Inquisition started meddling in the affairs of chapters that are still basically fighting for the Imperium, they might catch some trouble from the other chapters, either out of loyalty or fear of what the Inquisition will find if it digs in their closets.

That's a bit far-fetched, now. The Inquisition has been offing entire Chapters left and right if it felt the need to do so, and since they are arguably more closer to the Imperium (indeed, acting with the Emperor's own authority) than the Astartes, any Chapter that would feel bound to help their condemned brethren would invariably find itself drawn into a civil war with an entity they've sworn to protect, and in a conflict they have no chance at actually winning. I'm pretty sure any Chapter Master would think twice about this.

Here's a small example of Inquisitorial backstabbing: http://web.archive.org/web/20070202084000/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/clions.html

What is keeping the Blood Angels somewhat save is, indeed, their loyalty. They are a big asset to the Imperium and have proven themselves reliable and, at times, crucial in the past. They are somewhat scary to be around, but all in all their track record grants them quite a bit of leeway from both the High Lords as well as the Inquisition. It's like some sort of balance of how weird you are vs how much the Imperium values you.

The only "odd man out" really is just the Space Wolves, who can apparently get away with anything they want and have a squabble with about every single Imperial Adeptus in existence with next to no repercussions whatsoever, which makes them even more special compared to any other Space Marine Chapter out there than they already are by virtue of their exceptional culture and abilities alone.

-Loki- wrote:Hell, the Space Wolves have gotten away with straight up murdering an Inquisitor because Grimnar didn't like what he was being told.

That just happened in some BL novel, though, didn't it?
Huge difference between murdering a bunch of priests and murdering an Inquisitor. I would hope that GW fluff isn't so far gone that even the SW would get away with the latter just like that. Then again, the SW can apparently beat back the forces of an entire Segmentum, so who knows.

Logan Grimnar literally slaughtered both a Grey Knights grandmaster and an Inquisitor Lord shortly after that, in The Emperor's Gift. It had to do with the Inquisition's attempt to kill all of the Guardsmen who had fought on Armageddon due to their exposure to Angron and his daemons. The Speyce Wulves were trying to protect the Guardsmen ships from Grey Knight/Inquisition ships, who were destroying them, which brought the Inquisitorial hammer down on the Wulves, which in turn brought the Wulves' hammer down on the Inquisition.

The story ends with Logan Grimnar cutting off an Inquisitor Lord's head and the Inquisition taking its force and running away with its tail behind its legs.

I think that while the Inquisition has no trouble screwing around with minor chapters, trying to purge a 1st founding legion is a different story. Other chapters will jump to the Blood Angel's defense, out of loyalty or fear or an oath or something, and while the Inquisiton has the manpower in the SoB, IG and IN to put them down, who wants to expend that much resources when you have Abaddon crawling up your ass on one side of the Galaxy and the Tyranids attempting to thrust their chitin into your mouth on the other side? The Inquisition isn't stupid.

White Ninja wrote:The Grey Knights are higher up the pillar then even the Inquisition.

The Grey Knights are owned by the Inquisition, hence they are on exactly the same pillar. Same as the Deathwatch or the Exorcists, really. Or the Red Hunters, if that icon on their pauldron is of any indication.

Though it would probably true to say that as an organisation they are more important than any single Inquisitor. If a Puritan Inquisitor would want to go against the GKs, he would have a lot of opposition from other Inquisitors. The GKs would probably not even bother to even deal with this. They wouldn't need to, and probably would lack the ability to do so, as they (to my knowledge) do not move in this web of influence and alliances and grudges that every Inquisitor gets involved in. The GKs just do what they've always done and go around killing daemons, letting others do the squabbling.

BlaxicanX wrote:Logan Grimnar literally slaughtered both a Grey Knights grandmaster and an Inquisitor Lord shortly after that, in The Emperor's Gift.

Okay, a novel then. I'll keep that out of my personal interpretation, as I think there would be repercussions for this.

BlaxicanX wrote:I think that while the Inquisition has no trouble screwing around with minor chapters, trying to purge a 1st founding legion is a different story. Other chapters will jump to the Blood Angel's defense, out of loyalty or fear or an oath or something, and while the Inquisiton has the manpower in the SoB, IG and IN to put them down, who wants to expend that much resources when you have Abaddon crawling up your ass on one side of the Galaxy and the Tyranids attempting to thrust their chitin into your mouth on the other side? The Inquisition isn't stupid.

That much is true, and probably the reason for why we don't see more Marine Chapters being purged than there are. Except for some very few radical cases, even the most troublesome Chapter is still fighting the Emperor's enemies, so trying to put them down would just hurt the Imperium's own resources. The Inquisition doesn't mind a loose cannon as long as it still points towards the enemy. Indeed, many Inquisitors use questionable methods themselves!

That would change when a Chapter becomes too much of a problem, though, and I think stuff like killing GK Chapter Masters or Inquisitor Lords qualifies as that. There's a line which should not be overstepped, and whilst a lot of stuff can be excused, this isn't. Such an action would be an affront to the Inquisition's mandate of operating with the Emperor's supreme authority, not to mention any emotional factors by that Inquisitor Lord having other Inquisitors as friends and allies pushing for censure. Take the Sons of Malice, for example - they didn't become excommunicated for Pietas' claim of cannibalism, but because they executed the Inquisitor for her attack, thus forcing the Imperium's hand. I think it would have ended differently had they left her alive.

From all I've been reading I would say that, to the Imperium, killing an Inquisitor is no different than an attack on the Emperor Himself.

Well from what I have read since the Space Marines only really answer the Emperor and their Primarchs and since they haven't been too talkative lately any act of good will by the marines to the Inquisition is an attempt to play nice. All of the first foundings have been allowed to do what ever they fell like as long as it doesnt hurt the empirum and the damage is less then the benefits. Arnt the only people who can call exterminatus Inquisitors, the High Lords and Chapter Masters.

 ElectricPaladin wrote:
1) They are one of the original chapters. They're an institution of the Imperium. Inertia is a powerful ally.
2) They still fight for mankind. If the Blood Angels are coming, it's to save you.
3) The Blood Angels do a good job of covering up their weirder habits. The Astartes in general are pretty independent from the Inquisition.
4) As you've said, Astartes get a free pass. Despite the fact that the Imperium has a dim view of mutants and psychics, Astartes are allowed into the party despite being transhuman weirdos.
5) The Inquisition can't afford to piss the Astartes off that much. They need the Blood Angels. They also need the Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Crimson and Imperial Fists, and all the others. If the Inquisition started meddling in the affairs of chapters that are still basically fighting for the Imperium, they might catch some trouble from the other chapters, either out of loyalty or fear of what the Inquisition will find if it digs in their closets.

Like Paladin said, they still honour the Imperium with their service, and the majority of people that fall to the Black Rage and turn into a "mutant" the Blood Angels lock them away in a tower (forgot the name). Another major point is the Blood Angels Primarch Sanguinius is the most revered Primarch of all throughout the Imperium, beyond Roboute Guilliman.

It is true, they are a troubled Chapter, but they do their best to not let it overcome them. The BA are said to be one of the least trustworthy chapter in the Imperium because of these flaws, but the Dark Angels, despite no similar or known flaws, leave battles to hunt the fallen. The has been no known incident of the Blood Angels turning on or abandoning Imperial Forces, considering the flaws they have, they do well to stay in control. On another note, the BA are well connected with other Chapters (Space Wolves, being a major one), Imperial Worlds, and other minor Imperial Factions, with the addition of Lord Dante, the oldest Space Marine alive, I think the Imperium would be bonkers to do anything to the Blood Angels.

 Lynata wrote:


From all I've been reading I would say that, to the Imperium, killing an Inquisitor is no different than an attack on the Emperor Himself.

An attack on the Emperor is far beyond the loss of every single inquisitor.
No one is going to be missed. First page of the BRB.

Seriously, the Inquisition is the "secret police", not the good damn Emprah himself. They can't be everywhere or we had no rebellion.ever...
The bureaucrats collect data of everything in the Imperium, but they can't establish control over it at a level we are used to IRL as much as they try. And there are billions of them. The =I= has to run with a imagined watchful gaze at every imperial citizen, not a really existant one.

Plus, all subjects of the Emperor are meant to oppose the heretic and the traitor and a Inquisitor who has left his light is a valid target of .
2nd Plus: accidents may happen. I was not us, it was the xeno, the demon ,the heretic....