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So I am about o buy some wraiths to go with my army, and most of the games I play at my flgs are in the 1750 region, so I needed to re-write my list a bit. So here goes-

HQ

Nemesor Zahndrekh- (185)
Vargard Obyron-(160)
Court-
Lord- Scythe, Scarabs, Res. Orb, weave, shifter (150)
Lord- Scythe, Scarabs (60)
Lord- Orb (65)

(555)

Troops

Warriors x20 (260) (Joined By Orb Lord)
Immortals x 10, (Tesla)(170) (Joined by Zahndrekh, Discount Lord)
Immortals x 10, (Gauss)(170) (Joined by Shifter lord, Obyron)
(600)
Fast Attack

Wraiths x6 w/ whip coils x5 (260)

Heavy Support

Annihilation Barge x3 (270)

Total- 1750 exactly

The general plan here is to have the wraiths move up the board turn one, get the barges to jostle for position, and get the warriors to grab an objective, and zahndrek's group if there is another to grab. If not, zahndrek begins to footslog up the board. Turn 2- wraiths ought to be in CC with someone by now, use obyron's teleport to pop up on the other side of the board. Move the barges up, and press the attack. Any thoughts on how to improve this?

I feel like you have a ton of points sunk into your HQ's
20 warriors to camp a home objective is complete overkill, take around 8, and form a second squad with the rest, and use them, rather than Zandrehk to capture a second objective.

My concern, is you have a lack of weapons to deal with armor. the only ways you have currently are gauss glances, warscythes and the wraiths.

The tactic of using Obyron to zap into their backfield is a good one, and I like it, however i'd give him an ASSAULT unit to do it with, either lychguard, or god forbid, lots of flayed ones, your enemy will likely focus on the wraiths turn 1, and they should be in good shape to assault with them turn two.

I've used obyron teleport in an assault squad before- squad got shot to hell before they could get close enough to scythe off their faces. I prefer him to be a hidden powerfist in a squad that can be within rapid fire range asap.

Also, the one expensive lord is there to be that squad's invuln save/scarabs/orb, and while I'm at it, from that point its another 25 for 2+armor and scythe

only reason i got the massive warrior blob is because I wanted to have orblord hit all my remaining crons, but I could break that up, maybe distribute the points from the lord there into some cryptek goodies.

Edit- If I were to do that, it would probably look like
Nemesor Zahndrekh- (185)
Vargard Obyron-(160)
Court-
Lord- Scythe, Scarabs, Res. Orb, weave, shifter (150)
Lord- Scythe, Scarabs (60)
Cryptek-Transmog-Harp(60)

(555)

Troops

Warriors x10 (130) (Harptek)
Warriors x10 (130)
Immortals x 10, (Tesla)(170) (Joined by Zahndrekh, Discount Lord)
Immortals x 10, (Gauss)(170) (Joined by Shifter lord, Obyron)
(600)
Fast Attack

Wraiths x6 w/ whip coils x5 (260)

Heavy Support

Annihilation Barge x3 (270)

Total- 1745

Couple things, first and foremost is 150 points is to much for a 1W model, its too easy to just get sniped out by a character. just think you could have 11 more warriors. So I would just tone down his cost, make him either a support character or challenge master, not both.

The other thing is why does obyrons squad have guass? It would make more sense to give his squad Tesla so that he can shoot then assault.

Looks good other than that, I like Nemmessor and obyron lists so good luck and I hope the list works for you.

Issue with the 11 more warriors prospect is that I don't have 11 more warrior models As for why such an expensive lord, I wanted to at least have an invuln save/mss in the squad, and taking it on a generic overlord + all the other nigh-mandatory goodies would be 55 pts more expensive.
As for the gauss vs tesla, I can't assault after deep striking anyway, but what I can do is deep strike in rapid fire range, have zahndrekh give the squad counter-attack, and say "come at me bro!" Unless there is a vehicle in charge range, I tend to melee very defensively, letting my opponent get the first attack in if they so choose. Granted, I also usually run 2 overlords and have 2 teks with defensive grenades in the squad as well

The only problem with that defensive mindset to assault is that no one is going to assault a unit with obyron and another CC lord. They are just going to shoot you. It just doesn't make sense for someone to assault you seeing as you'll just veil out of combat if you want. So I feel the assault weapon will at least allow you to get obyron into combat while getting shots off the turn after you deepstrike.

Didn't know of the model limit but still 150 is just too much for 1W. I'd remove some wargear and add maybe a lancetek with a pulse to the naked warrior squad, or something. Remember you still got Obyron in that squad so if he's taking the challenges then decking your lord to fight challenges is redundant, you can save yourself some points since scarabs are meh outside of a challenge and 2+ isn't really necessary since obyron has a 2+ save and you can't really be singled out in combat unless your unlucky or in a challenge.

I'm just saying, just played a game against Space Wolves at 1750 points, and Obyron with Lychguard tanked and then proceeded to kill 2 long fang squads with termie wolf guard, and a small squad of grey hunters. The lychguard's shields are honestly pretty cheap, then use Obyron's WS to handle 2+ armor

aye, the lychguard does present another problem that was mentioned earlier with the warriors, being that I don't have any If you really think I should drop the lord, I still do want an invuln in the squad somewhere to soak up the inevitable ap3 attack. Also, without that lord, the squad suddenly finds itself sans-res orb, which for a squad that will be inevitably drawing lots of fire, is not somethin I am awful comfortable with. The only thing I would even consider is dropping the transmog-tek just so I could upgrade this lord to an overlord. I always prefer sending a mss lord to handle challenges instead of obyron, cause MSS makes it an automatic 50% + chance of winning against even the toughest of enemies, and even if there is no big bad guy to challenge, MSS is just to valuable to pass up. Obyron I tend to use not as a duelist, but as a swarm-killer. When he gets his full 10 attacks on the counter (3+ 1 (charging or countering) +6 misses, he can effectively make the enemy squad disappear. As for the immortals, I really must sing my praises for what gauss immortals can do if they can stay in rapid fire range. I have, before, done deepstrike, shoot, get assaulted (with defensive grenades this time, different build, same idea) with counter-attack up, then on my turn, deep strike again, back just far enough to be in rapid fire, and rinse/repeat. There isn't much that can survive that. Obyron is a melee monster, but I find him to be fairly scary when he is teleporting a shooty squad all over the board all the time.

I have had very good success taking out any deathstar you can put together with 2 units of 5 deathmarks in nightscythes with 2 abyssal staffs in each unit. One unit is enough to take out most units but you may need both to take out draigo and a full unit of paladins or warboss with a full unit of nob bikers. You have no need for an assault unit when you have these 2 units.

Hm, maybe you could swap Obyron out completely, and use despairteks for the same effect, and for cheaper?

Ya I would drop the harp and upgrade to a overlord. I completely forgot that obyron doesn't count as an HQ if you have the nemmessor.

Makes sense with what you say about the guass immortals cause I do use them, its just I don't think anyone will ever assault that unit.

As for obyron in combat, does anyone ever direct attacks at him? Or in the new rules do all missed attacks add to his attack total? Not sure since I haven't run him in 6th yet.

The thing with obyron is I can use his teleport to get OUT of CC as well, despairteks cant do that.

A good point that I hadn't considered.
On the newest list with the wraiths, you could likely save a few points by dropping the whip coils to 3, i find that usually is enough.
It may be a personal opinion, but Invuln saves are fairly expensive to be putting in every squad, you might end up being better off with more bodies.

Punisher wrote:
Ya I would drop the harp and upgrade to a overlord. I completely forgot that obyron doesn't count as an HQ if you have the nemmessor.

Makes sense with what you say about the guass immortals cause I do use them, its just I don't think anyone will ever assault that unit.

As for obyron in combat, does anyone ever direct attacks at him? Or in the new rules do all missed attacks add to his attack total? Not sure since I haven't run him in 6th yet.

The way I have personally been running that is having my opponent roll attacks that would be against obyron and no other unit (I.E. units that are in b2b with him or units that can't reach anyone else) seprately, then taking the tally from that. As such, I tend to run him towards the front of the unit where possible.

On another note- you clearly play against people who know necron lords are scary in melee. Most of the people I play against don't. Either way, if they don't feel like charging you, GREAT! you are going to let me keep my 3+ armor, 4+ res immortals with their 3++ invuln buddy in rapid-fire range? Ok then, enjoy me pasting things every turn until you charge me to fight the pair of lords! It's a wonderful "damned if you do, damned if you don't" so long as you remember that immortals are not 100% immortal and you don't deep-strike them into the middle of EVERYTHING your opponent can throw at it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:
A good point that I hadn't considered.
On the newest list with the wraiths, you could likely save a few points by dropping the whip coils to 3, i find that usually is enough.
It may be a personal opinion, but Invuln saves are fairly expensive to be putting in every squad, you might end up being better off with more bodies.

Yeah, that's why I just want an invuln save in the immortal squads, or at the very least, the one that will be deep-striking right up in people's faces. In the list I run now, it's actually zahndrekh that fills that role, while my tesla immortals usually just have a 2+ overlord in em.

The main problem with the super expensive unit is that it just does dish out enough damage unlessits in assault. And while 10 rapid fire shots can do damage, your opponent can just ignore it for the most part because it costs you sooo many points and just focus down the rest of your army. Its not threatening enough as just a firebase, your paying too much for those shots.

I find when the squad is in-your-face, they tend to focus pretty hard on it.

Its just that with only 20 shots a turn, if your fighting against say meq, since that's the most common, you have about 9 wounds given so 3 dead a turn. If your game lasts 6 turns, which is average I think, then you got 18 kills. Now unless these models are a average cost of 26pts or more, you don't make the points you invested. Now I know there are other factors like its a scoring unit and you can hide your warlord in it. It just isn't a cost effective unit as just a firebase.

And as a tank hunting unit you just have better cost effective units in the codex to kill tanks. Since they will only strip 2 hull points a turn on average.

That's just my spiel, that if you are facing have a super Hardy unit that costs a ton but can't make its points back just ignore it. Really it forces you to be proactive and initiate the assaults, which is why I think the Tesla is better on your death star squad.

If I REALLY want to, I guess I can free up 20 points, call my overlord a phaeron, and now the squad is better in every way

Ya I'd say this is one of the few situations that phareon is useful.