Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've wanted to collect either one for a long time, and you'll see posts by me in both the Fantasy and Hordes sections of the forum.

There seems to be more Fantasy players in my area, but Warmahordes is very, very quickly catching up. The two friends I have that wargame play each game system.

Which one should I start?

If it helps, I want to start a High Elf Fantasy army or a Circle Orboros Hordes army.

Hi.
IF you mainly collect minatures and the rules are not that important to you, or just a way to inspire your purchases.
Then get WHFB.

If gameing is just as impoprtant as collecting, painting,and constructin/converting, to you.Then get Hoards.

From someone who loves both, there are two key differences to start you off.

First, do you want to play a skirmish game or a large battle game. Hordes/WM is the first, Fantasy is the second.

Second, do you want to design your own characters. In Hordes/WM, all characters have set profiles and abilities, while in Fantasy you build your own.


If you have a very limited budget, Hordes would be a better choice since you can build a solid force at a much lower starting cost than Fantasy. Though once you expand beyond startup costs, you'd probably spend the same regardless of the one you choose.

Both of your friends are allot better at advising you on which system to play then a bunch of strangers on the interwebz.

They will know your tastes allot better for starters.

But it all boils down to your personal preference: are you interested in an "army" scale game or in a more "skirmishy" scale one?

How important is rule consistency and playability to you?

How important is the scope of the fluff to you?

How important is the ability to customise your own characters and convert them?

Answer these questions and we will be allot better qualified to assist you on your choice.

I have both a Lord of the Rings army as well as a 40k one, so the scale of the game does not really bother me.

I will play a game that is unpredictable and will result in unusual and surprising results more than one with predictable ones. I like LOTR because there is always the chance that a Moria Goblin can take down Aragorn. I find therefore LOTR more fun than 40k

I quite like a large scope for the fluff - 40k and LOTR have reams of the stuff! However, it is not really a primary concern for me, and I actually lean to Warmahordes at this point because it's less stereotypical than WFB.

I don't mind not being able to customise my characters. It's nice to have that option, but ultimately I don't really mind.

Will that help?

If you like random effects start a Fantasy army. I play both systems, and what I like about Fantasy is the wild effect of spells and the random charge distances. Generally Fantasy has a very chaotic nature to it I find. But this is also what makes it such a great and unpredictable game.

And definitely try out storm of magic. It is everything great about Fantasy, turned to 11 :-D

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I have both a Lord of the Rings army as well as a 40k one, so the scale of the game does not really bother me.

I will play a game that is unpredictable and will result in unusual and surprising results more than one with predictable ones. I like LOTR because there is always the chance that a Moria Goblin can take down Aragorn. I find therefore LOTR more fun than 40k

I quite like a large scope for the fluff - 40k and LOTR have reams of the stuff! However, it is not really a primary concern for me, and I actually lean to Warmahordes at this point because it's less stereotypical than WFB.

I don't mind not being able to customise my characters. It's nice to have that option, but ultimately I don't really mind.

Will that help?

Well, then I genuinely believe that you would prefer Hordes.

The multiple win conditions mean that a game is never really decided until it ends. The fluff, while nowhere near as "epic" in scope as it is in WHFB, is constantly evolving and has actually reached a level where it is well written and engaging.

You won't have character customization or a very broad scope in conversions but since you say that that isn't a major factor...

You will have the "pleasure" of watching a favourite character grow and evolve both in the fluff and in matching rules, so that is another plus.

PhantomViper wrote:

The multiple win conditions mean that a game is never really decided until it ends.

Or to put it another way, even a lost attrition battle can be won by skill, audacity and a bit of luck. Or just weird outliers. My Protectorate choirboys, agreeably one the most useless troops with a melee weapon in the game (naturally enough, as their function is something else entirely), have three or four warlocks/warcasters on their conscience by now. Even my Swamp Gobbers have once put the finishing touch on a heavy warjack

Before you decide, why don't you proxy a game of each and see what appeals to you more? I can only assume there is someone near you able to help you demo a game of fantasy and PP provides the quickstart rules for hordes on their website. http://privateerpress.com/hordes/the-game
You could get a smaller army of each and trade off what you end up playing less on the secondhand market.

If you like large battles with big blocks of infantry and wholly unpredictable effects left to the dice gods the fantasy is for you.
If you are looking something with a greater focus on unpredictable player actions and lower model count then Hordes will be a much better fit.

There are far too many differences to list and most are subjective but I think two things that are safe to say are: hordes has a much tighter ruleset and fantasy lets you field a much larger and grand-looking army.

Considering High Elves aren't a very expensive army, and Warmachine isn't very expensive (If you know exactly what you want), why not both?

I'd definitely recommend playing with your friends armies first to see which game you would like more. You're lucky enough to have friends that game both systems, so take advantage of that.

It sounds like you eventually want to play both.

If playing still doesn't tell you, then go with whichever one's miniatures appeal to you most.

One other thing in Warhammer's favor, its figures are easier to use in games like Kings of War, and more generic fantasy games like HoTT and others.

If my group was into mass battle fantasy, I'd definitely be building a Warhammer/KoW army of some sort.

I have played a 7th Edition Fantasy game, and I really enjoyed it. IIRC I played old Skaven against Lizardmen and got a right drubbing. It was great fun however.

If too much hasn't changed, I'll go see a Warmahordes game and see which one I prefer.

Fantasy 8th ed is very much a different game than Fantasy 7th ed. I kinda play both, but will definitely play a game of Warmahordes (I personally play Trollbloods) over one of Fantasy. The rules are clearly written, and all it takes is a little searching to work out any questions, unlike Fantasy where there is vagueness in the wording. To me Fantasy is just 2 rounds of forward movement, 3 rounds of combat, and 1 round of clean up. Hordes games are much more dynamic, with a good chunk ending before round 6, the ending point of most games on the market.

I see that with Hordes and PP games in general there isn't much modelling. Is that true?

Customization of units in Warmahordes is done by adding unit attachments, additional bodies with different weapons or abilities than standard grunts. Therefore the conversions should be kept to a minimum.
For example I have 5 heavy warjacks that all use the same chassis 1 I will never use in game because I built it to look cool and it doesn't have a valid weapon combination. The variants in PP's online gallery are what you can get. also when buying units buy the big set first, it gives you the minimum squad and the cards, which have the specific rules, for that unit.

What do you mean by modelling? I don't really have much experience with recent GW figures, but I wouldn't say PP models are all that complex to put together.

If you mean converting, modelling and making your own creations, I would simply say that such things are entirely up to you. I have seen pictures of a very niceKhadoran army converted into a Cygnaran "alternate universe" army (complete with Irusk wearing Epic Stryker's armour and red-dyed hair) and a number of other conversions out there, including people making up new backgrounds for named characters and playing them as said named characters. I have also seen impressive redoes of a lot of models in my local meta - one of our Circle players converts his entire army to D&D demons.

PP har some general rules on conversions (check out the Steamroller document) that aim to prevent figures from being mistaken for other figures in tournaments, but they are surprisingly easy to get around. Some people (as the post snuck in above me, edit) intepret this very strictly, but my experience over here in Europe is that most TOs will be very lenient.

There are not many extra "bits" in PP kits (except the Heavy warjack/beast kits where you can build 1 or 3 or magnetize to get 3 warnouns in one) so you'll usually get such things in trade or the old-fashioned way from when I was a sprog and every GW model was metal. PP also has a bits service on their webpage.

If you are going to be playing 8th ed WHFB and not the ETC rules, you will be handicapping yourself if you make your models too big, too tall or too scenic,, because 8th edition uses TLOS. I have seen some very sad modellers realizing that their warboss proudly standing on top of his custom boar-tower, adressing his troops, now has a big fat "target" painted on him due to TLOS. In WM/H or the ETC rules, you can build freely (within basing constraints so your guys don't tip over).

Thanks for all the help guys.

I've decided to go with Hordes as Circle. I have gone down this route because I think it would be easier to get a full army fully painted (going to go down a different route this time) and cheaper short term. I do think I will eventually start Fantasy, just not yet.

Thanks though.

Drop by the WM/H subforums if you want any advice!