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Question arose when a friend of mine was considering the Choas Codex. He asked me whether or not that any of the Traitor Legion's specifically all went into on of the four cult marines. IE are all Death Guard Plague marines? Are all World Eaters Khorne Bererkers? Are all Emperor's Children Noise Marines? Are all Thousand Sons Rubric Marines? My response to him was as follows, for the most part yes all Death guard are Plague Marines, World Eaters Khorne Berserkers, and Thousand Sons Rubric Marines, but not all Emperor's Children were Noise Marines. He then asked me how I knew this and I explained the fall of Mortarion and the Rubric of Ahriman. He counters with what if there were additional forces not there. I told him that I didn't know. So I now pass the question to you all, seeking the more knowledgeable members of Dakka. Would it be possible to have your Chaos Marines representing the Traitor Legion without, or not entirely using the Cult Troops?

ALL Rubric marines are Thousand Sons
apart from that the cult troops just are followers of their god really dedicate themselves

You could easily do a WE ro DG force w/ the right marks but no cult troops of you really wanted to

So it is impossible to have Thousand Son Havocs, Chosen, or normal CSM for example?

Absolutely. Especially if you're not using one of the four cult armies such as WB, NL, IW or AL.

If you are using one of the cult legions, it's still possible. The World Eaters are one of the most fractious legions and may have had a warband split off who turned from Khorne in favor of chaos undivided. Thousand Sons who are not rubric marines are strong sorcerers, but some many have returned to their traditional skills, especially if they were to acquire more traditional relics of the Thousand Sons, such as suits of terminator armor. Plague marines can all be in various states of decay. While all may "technically" be called plague marines, those whose symptoms and maladies haven't developed could still be indistinguishable from a standard chaos space marine, if there is such as thing.

Most importantly, the legions as they are in 40k are not just made up of the marines who fought during the Heresy. Many fallen chapters have turned to the legions instead of forming their own warband. This gives the legions an influx of new recruits who have not (yet) become one of the cult troops.

Edit: All Rubric Marines are Thousand Sons, but not all Thousand Sons are rubric marines.

All Thousand Sons are Rubric Marines.

All Death Guard became Plague Marines.

All World Eaters became Khorne Bezerkers.

All Emperor's Children became Noise Marines(or at least slannesh aligned)


And all Rubric Marines are Thousand Sons.

But not all Plague Marines are Death Guard, not alll Khorne Bezerkers are World Eaters, and not all Noise Marines are Emperor's Children.

DO you have a source for that Templar?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Death_Guard

This shows beyond reasonable doubt in my mind that no Chaos aligned Death Guard is undivided or worshipping a different god. the same for Emperor's Children and World Eaters.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor%27s_Children

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/World_Eaters

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thousand_Sons

Thousand Sons are Rubric Marines because of the spell that Arhiman cast. Its not going to get recast on someone so they can be a Rubric Marine.

I suppose someone could theoretically recast the spell, but given what happened the first time I doubt anyone would.

THose threads make me think it would be possible, as it mentions most went on to become, in the case of Plague and Noise Marines, and that World Eaters feature large numbers of Khorne Berzerkers.

Later in the Thousand Sons area it states this:

Like all of the Legiones Astartes the Thousand Sons were initially made up of Terran marines. In the aftermath of Magnus' deal with Tzeentch to save their lives, only around a thousand of them were left. For the rest of the Crusade, the Thousand Sons recruited from Prospero, a planet of only limited population (although many of them were psychically active). As a result the Thousand Sons were never a large legion.

How the Thousand Sons currently maintain their numbers is unknown, although they have been observed carrying out an apparent resurrection ritual at least once. On this occasion the spirits of deceased Thousand Sons were summoned from the warp into mortal bodies (whether living or dead making no particular difference), bodies which then transformed themselves into reborn Thousand Sons.

At least one Imperial commentator on the subject believes that the Thousand Sons have a cult network that provides potential recruits for the legion.

But I see that as taking their souls and making a new rubric marine. So they are Thousand Sons with a new rubric body.

Although I suppose you could have it the other way.

It was done to bring back sorcerers in the Space Wolf series.

Yeah, but its still an original Thousand Son. Who didn't lose his body with the Rubric.

Yes, but he was dead and brought back via that method.

When you can show that they are taking new recruits and turning them into Rubric Marines is when I'll change my mind that all Rubric Marines are original thousand sons.