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So as the title says, I have two lists in need of your opinions, the first is a Daemons of Chaos list, and the second is a Legions of Azghor: Chaos Dwarf list.

any CC would be much appreciated, and could comments of how expensive money wise the second army would be to buy be refrained from please.

List 1: Daemons of Chaos: 2000pts.

Heroes:

Herald of Nurgle: Noxious Vapours.

Herald of Tzeentch: Power Vortex.

The Blue Scribes of Tzeentch.

Core:

Plaguebearers: x40, Full command, Icon of Eternal Virulence.

Pink Horrors: x40, Full command, Icon of Sorcery, The Changeling.

Special:

Flamers of Tzeentch: x5

Rare:

Soulgrinder: Daemonbone Claw, Warp Gaze.

Total: 2001pts.

List 2: Legions of Azghor: Chaos Dwarves: 2000pts.

Lord:

Sorcerer-Prophet: Lv4. Stone Mantle (+1 T, -1 In), Blood of Hashut (one use only, select one model in base contact, on a D6 of 2+ you get D6 auto-hits. To wound = enemies armour save. No armour saves allowed against this attack.)

Heroes:

Daemonsmith Sorcerer: Lv2.

Castellan: Battle Standard, Wailing Banner.

Core:

Infernal Guard: x30. Full command. War Banner.

Infernal Guard: x30. Full command.

Special:

Magma Cannon

Magma Cannon

Bull Centaur Renders: x5. Shields. Banner of Swiftness.

Army Total: 1984pts.

for 2500pts the following changes are made:

List Gains:

Special:

Iron Daemon War Engine.

Rare:

Dreadquake Mortar: Slave Ogre, Steam Carriage, Hellbound.

Magma Cannons are upgraded with Steam Carriages

List loses:

2 Bull Centaur Renders.

War Banner.

Thoughts?

needs more nids? they seem like good lists to me, but i dont play fantasy.

List 1: Daemons of Chaos: 2000pts.

Heroes:

Herald of Nurgle: Noxious Vapours.

Herald of Tzeentch: Power Vortex.

The Blue Scribes of Tzeentch.

Core:

Plaguebearers: x40, Full command, Icon of Eternal Virulence.

Pink Horrors: x40, Full command, Icon of Sorcery, The Changeling.

Special:

Flamers of Tzeentch: x5

Rare:

Soulgrinder: Daemonbone Claw, Warp Gaze.

Total: 2001pts.

Unless this is just based on what models you have I wouldn't take IMO plaguebearers nor a herald of nurgle. Instead I would take bloodletters and a herald of khorne. I also wouldn't take a soulgrinder since its usefulness is milded to say the most considering it could get tarpited to death by something like zombies easily. Lastly get the loremaster upgrade (whatever it is called) on the herald of tzeentch so you don't have two casters using the lore of tzeentch. More flamers couldn't hurt as well.

 ArchVile wrote:

List 1: Daemons of Chaos: 2000pts.

Heroes:

Herald of Nurgle: Noxious Vapours.

Herald of Tzeentch: Power Vortex.

The Blue Scribes of Tzeentch.

Core:

Plaguebearers: x40, Full command, Icon of Eternal Virulence.

Pink Horrors: x40, Full command, Icon of Sorcery, The Changeling.

Special:

Flamers of Tzeentch: x5

Rare:

Soulgrinder: Daemonbone Claw, Warp Gaze.

Total: 2001pts.

Unless this is just based on what models you have I wouldn't take IMO plaguebearers nor a herald of nurgle. Instead I would take bloodletters and a herald of khorne. I also wouldn't take a soulgrinder since its usefulness is milded to say the most considering it could get tarpited to death by something like zombies easily. Lastly get the loremaster upgrade (whatever it is called) on the herald of tzeentch so you don't have two casters using the lore of tzeentch. More flamers couldn't hurt as well.

Thanks for the advice... but I was staying away from Khorne due to Red... had too much red a while back and I'm still getting over it lols.

But seriously, why no to Nurgle?

I also chose the soulgrinder for something different, but also, I have little to no VC players in my area :/

Thanks for the advice... but I was staying away from Khorne due to Red... had too much red a while back and I'm still getting over it lols.

But seriously, why no to Nurgle?

I also chose the soulgrinder for something different, but also, I have little to no VC players in my area :/

Ever since they made it for you can't get both regeneration and the daemon ward save, plaguebearers have become sub par especially when compared to your other unit options. They may still be tough with S4 and T4 but they're to slow and lack the killing power to make up for it. The only way to play nurgle now is a tally list or something similar. I have nothing personally agaisnt nurgle units, as a matter of fact they are my favorite of all the daemons, its just that in fantasy they aren't very good.

And about the soulgrinder I don't just mean zombies, I mean anything, goblins could hold it up. Its to expensive for dieing so easily to static combat res so IMO stay away from it.

Nurgle is great with noxious vapors people dont like them because they are slow, but that alone cancels it out. Not to mention S4 T4 regen 4+ and if that fails still the same 5+ ward, factor in poison attacks and additional combat resolution, they will cut down most any unit in the game with small losses and will not get tarpitted. However with a herald of tzeentch you should take master of sorcery since a lore master of Shadow is just amazing for any point game, and its only 25 points. This will allow you to not worry about the loss of magic from the Tzeentch guys who are very fragile and not killy even when compaired to Daemonettes. The soul grinder I agree is a waste of points as well, not because it sucks, but because with the points you spend you can get something far more productive and choppy. Sure shooting is nice but you can give your herald slightly better gear(gifts) or maybe take a few fiends of Slaanesh, who are pretty awesome. Regardless there are better options out there. Lastly Nurgle as I said works but it works best when you toss in some blood letters, you leave your opponent 2 options with 2 blocks of 40 respectively. First do I get wtf owned by bloodletters and kill 2/3, or do I get owned on combat resolution from plaguebearers and kill 50%. Where as with pink horrors thats free points, even scrubby core skaven guys can take them out, in return they aren't going to kill many things unless its in the magic phase and with the scribes and a herald how many dice will you use on them every turn anyways?

ArchVile wrote:

Thanks for the advice... but I was staying away from Khorne due to Red... had too much red a while back and I'm still getting over it lols.

But seriously, why no to Nurgle?

I also chose the soulgrinder for something different, but also, I have little to no VC players in my area :/

Ever since they made it for you can't get both regeneration and the daemon ward save, plaguebearers have become sub par especially when compared to your other unit options. They may still be tough with S4 and T4 but they're to slow and lack the killing power to make up for it. The only way to play nurgle now is a tally list or something similar. I have nothing personally agaisnt nurgle units, as a matter of fact they are my favorite of all the daemons, its just that in fantasy they aren't very good.

And about the soulgrinder I don't just mean zombies, I mean anything, goblins could hold it up. Its to expensive for dieing so easily to static combat res so IMO stay away from it.

Tookyflakes wrote:Nurgle is great with noxious vapors people dont like them because they are slow, but that alone cancels it out. Not to mention S4 T4 regen 4+ and if that fails still the same 5+ ward, factor in poison attacks and additional combat resolution, they will cut down most any unit in the game with small losses and will not get tarpitted. However with a herald of tzeentch you should take master of sorcery since a lore master of Shadow is just amazing for any point game, and its only 25 points. This will allow you to not worry about the loss of magic from the Tzeentch guys who are very fragile and not killy even when compaired to Daemonettes. The soul grinder I agree is a waste of points as well, not because it sucks, but because with the points you spend you can get something far more productive and choppy. Sure shooting is nice but you can give your herald slightly better gear(gifts) or maybe take a few fiends of Slaanesh, who are pretty awesome. Regardless there are better options out there. Lastly Nurgle as I said works but it works best when you toss in some blood letters, you leave your opponent 2 options with 2 blocks of 40 respectively. First do I get wtf owned by bloodletters and kill 2/3, or do I get owned on combat resolution from plaguebearers and kill 50%. Where as with pink horrors thats free points, even scrubby core skaven guys can take them out, in return they aren't going to kill many things unless its in the magic phase and with the scribes and a herald how many dice will you use on them every turn anyways?

Thanks to both of you.

I'll try reworking the list based on what you have both said.

I say dump Nurgle and go full TZ on core and heroes. You got power vortex and can cast with your blocks of horrors. And you're likely getting a dice or two or three with blue scribes. Get another horror block. Maybe another TZ herald with another vortex or loremaster. And you can always throw 6 dice at whatever blue scribe comes up with. If it miscasts, no biggie.

So that's plenty of anvil but you don't have much hammer other than spells.

Soulgrinder is great. Don't listen to him. Just don't get anything except claw. He's a T7 monster with a ward save and 4+ armor who moves 8. But he's mostly another really big anvil and anti-character anti-monster (with claw). So people will avoid him.

The new Seekers are good. But you don't need more anti monster. The killiest stuff out there is still bloodletters for cost. Paint them white and say they're horrors that have been transmorgrified. Fluff it anyway you want.

But your plaguebearers won't do enough dmg without Epidemius and all the nurgle buffs. They are another anvil, really.

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The Chaos Dwarfs I don't like Bull Centaurs much. I think they cost too much. The +WS and such doesn't make up for them losing an attack (vs. ogres and such).

I don't like steam carriages. You want your war machines spread out a bit. And it's not like you can move and fire. The train is just another weapon, IMHO.

And with a mortar, they HAVE to charge you. Because you're dropping Str 5 mortars on them. And then they hit your magma cannons. If you wanted to be really mean, you could have 2 mortars (no upgrades), have a daemonsmith standing near each, and reroll the scatter. Anyone hit has to take dangerous terrain test when they move, and they HAVE to move or they'll keep getting plastered.

Obviously a Kdaii destroyer is super great and all, but CD are still an army that can dominate in ranged.

DukeRustfield wrote:
I say dump Nurgle and go full TZ on core and heroes. You got power vortex and can cast with your blocks of horrors. And you're likely getting a dice or two or three with blue scribes. Get another horror block. Maybe another TZ herald with another vortex or loremaster. And you can always throw 6 dice at whatever blue scribe comes up with. If it miscasts, no biggie.

So that's plenty of anvil but you don't have much hammer other than spells.

Soulgrinder is great. Don't listen to him. Just don't get anything except claw. He's a T7 monster with a ward save and 4+ armor who moves 8. But he's mostly another really big anvil and anti-character anti-monster (with claw). So people will avoid him.

The new Seekers are good. But you don't need more anti monster. The killiest stuff out there is still bloodletters for cost. Paint them white and say they're horrors that have been transmorgrified. Fluff it anyway you want.

But your plaguebearers won't do enough dmg without Epidemius and all the nurgle buffs. They are another anvil, really.

************************
The Chaos Dwarfs I don't like Bull Centaurs much. I think they cost too much. The +WS and such doesn't make up for them losing an attack (vs. ogres and such).

I don't like steam carriages. You want your war machines spread out a bit. And it's not like you can move and fire. The train is just another weapon, IMHO.

And with a mortar, they HAVE to charge you. Because you're dropping Str 5 mortars on them. And then they hit your magma cannons. If you wanted to be really mean, you could have 2 mortars (no upgrades), have a daemonsmith standing near each, and reroll the scatter. Anyone hit has to take dangerous terrain test when they move, and they HAVE to move or they'll keep getting plastered.

Obviously a Kdaii destroyer is super great and all, but CD are still an army that can dominate in ranged.

Thanks for that... this was really a mission to see which list was preferred by people, as well as the imput on things. If I'm being told by just about everyone to drop the PB's then I'm not doing daemon's. as tbh, PB's were one of my reasons for the list.

I added the BC's in the Chaos Dwarf list for old times sake lols, I'm heavily nostalgic for the CD's (whenever I type CD I always feel like I'm writing Cross Dressers abbreviated, but anyways).

I added the Steam Carriages for the hard cover and defended obstacle rules.but having not played in a while with fantasy I cant remember how useful that'd be lols.

Yeah the Mortar was another nostalgia moment with the earthshaker cannon. I may re jiggle the list so as to fit another in, but I want Slave Ogres on them for one per turn per Mortar.

K'daai anything just don't float my boat tbh... I avoid them as they just don't seem particularly fluffy imo... I plan on a flock of Lammasu for Storm of Magic lols just because I can... maybe a Bale Taurus as well lols...


Thanks for the imput and I'll see what I can do with the list and update laters!

You can make a PB list just drop the horrors and all the TZ stuff and grab epidemius and few heralds. Once you hit poisoning on 4+ they will get killy. But you need Epidemius for that. Maybe some nurglings just for some mass hits of 4+ poison and blocking. I.e., you spent too much on TZ stuff. PB can be dual-duty as hammers and anvils.

Forgeworld also has a nurgle soulgrinder that looks really good if you're into guts. It's probably under 40K.

Yah, slave ogres are good. And they are there for CC. But you can't afford 2 of em.

DukeRustfield wrote:
You can make a PB list just drop the horrors and all the TZ stuff and grab epidemius and few heralds. Once you hit poisoning on 4+ they will get killy. But you need Epidemius for that. Maybe some nurglings just for some mass hits of 4+ poison and blocking. I.e., you spent too much on TZ stuff. PB can be dual-duty as hammers and anvils.

Forgeworld also has a nurgle soulgrinder that looks really good if you're into guts. It's probably under 40K.

Yah, slave ogres are good. And they are there for CC. But you can't afford 2 of em.

Well I'm sticking to CD's... And Im' about to try re-jigging the list a tad to fit stuff in




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Legions of Azghor: Chaos Dwarves: 2500pts.

Lord:

Sorcerer-Prophet: Lv4. Stone Mantle (+1 T, -1 In), Blood of Hashut (one use only, select one model in base contact, on a D6 of 2+ you get D6 auto-hits. To wound = enemies armour save. No armour saves allowed against this attack.) 360pts.
Heroes:

Daemonsmith Sorcerer: Lv2. 130pts.

Castellan: Battle Standard, Wailing Banner. 180pts.

Core:

Infernal Guard: x30. Full command. War Banner. 427pts.

Infernal Guard: x30. Full command. 392pts.

Special:

Magma Cannon: 145pts.

Magma Cannon: 145pts.

Magma Cannon: 145pts.

Bull Centaur Renders: x3 Shields. 135pts.

Rare:

Dreadquake Mortar: Slave Ogre. 215pts.

Dreadquake Mortar: Slave Ogre. 215pts.

Army Total: 2489pts.

Not sure if you have all this stuff yet, but I'd recommend starting at like 1K pts or less for CD. Cuz it's sooo expensive. If you find you like mortars a lot, then by all means buy 2. But you don't have a ton of variety (not that the new CD list has a ton either) and I don't want to recommend something that makes you bored with a really expensive list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also take it back a bit on the Bull Centaurs. They are a really strong anvil. I hadn't looked at all the options they have in a while, just their fluff page. They got a high T and high armor and 4WS. Just not a lot of attacks.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Not sure if you have all this stuff yet, but I'd recommend starting at like 1K pts or less for CD. Cuz it's sooo expensive. If you find you like mortars a lot, then by all means buy 2. But you don't have a ton of variety (not that the new CD list has a ton either) and I don't want to recommend something that makes you bored with a really expensive list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also take it back a bit on the Bull Centaurs. They are a really strong anvil. I hadn't looked at all the options they have in a while, just their fluff page. They got a high T and high armor and 4WS. Just not a lot of attacks.

CD's just don't seem to work as a small list imo. I don't get bored of armies either, I never get of them too, as I still have all of mine.

Centaurs also have stomp to their name as well being monstrous beasts. and seeming the meta for 8th ed fantasy is mostrous cavalry they seemed necessary.

unless you have a grand army 3k+ points dont think you can take 3 Magma Cannons (or any special choices) more than twice. Hmmm not sure about this, had a long time off and just come back to playing again.

Found my rule book its rare you cant have more than 2 of same, special it is three, sorry, I got it wrong, LOL

I am also working out a Chaos Dwarf army, but starting off at much lower points, but ofc i want to eventually go up to 2k+. I am hoping though that by the time i have got to 1500 points FW will have released more models/choices and some nice Hobgoblin models as well.