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So I'm starting a new army for the new year, and going to be trying for a Heresy Death Guard army with the new Forge World models. However, rather than spend my whole life explaining to people the FW Legion Rules, I'm just going to proxy in using the C:SM army list. The army is for my gaming club's campaign, so I'm aiming at fun but resonably competative all comers list.

Here's my first stab, comments welcome:

HQ
Vulcan 190

Master of the Forge 100
Servitor 10

Elite
5 Marine Sternguard Veteran Squad 125
5 Additional Marines 125
5 Combi Melta 25
5 Combi Plasma 25
Drop Pod 35

5 Marine Sternguard Veteran Squad 125
5 Additional Marines 125
5 Combi Flamer 25
2 Melta Guns 10
Drop Pod 35

Ironclad Dreadnought 135
Replace Storm Bolter with Heavy Flamer 10
Drop Pod 35

5 Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields 200

Troops
5 Marine Tactical Squad with Melta 95
5 Additional Marines with Multi Melta 80
Drop Pod 35

5 Marine Tactical Squad with Flamer 90
5 Additional Marines with Multi Melta 80
Drop Pod 35

The servitor is a bit of a joke - we're playing a pre-campaign Inquisiotor campaign and my character is a Jokaero, who's going to be the servitor. I know it's giving away a free kill point (although I'll hopfully be able to hide him suitably well that he won't give first blood too often). Other than that, any comments? I'm not sure about the termies, who at present will prob be footslogging across the table.

Also, not sure about anti flyer. There's not a huge number of flyers at the club, and my experience is that they're pretty underwealming, so the plan is to drop most things close to the opponents table edge to minimise the number of turns flyers can target, and to just pretty much ignore or use the twin linked meltas to try and take them down.

Needs another squad of troops, Tha Master of the Forge is not really needed unless he has a conversion beamer. Eliminate a sternguard and bring in a stormtalon. Also, how is Vulkan and the termies getting around? Perhaps cut one sternguard for a Land Raider Redeemer with Multi Melta

I think you've got a pretty good pod setup with sternguard and the dred dropping on T1 and scoring tacs later to preserve them. If I were you though I'd want a few more threats just to be safe.

My best shot at getting points for that is to cut vulkan. Being TL is helpful when you're alpha striking for sure but he costs a gakload, especially when you've got an HQ already.

My best suggestions for replacing him:
-cheap MM, double HF or rifleman dreds (also downgrade the ironclad imo)
-librarian to gate hammernators (makes them a LOT more dependable since they can deep strike on t1)
-more hammernators. hammernators are great for pod armies as they're a hard counter to many assault units that can just eat your army up.
-get combiweapons in the tacsquads lol

Oh and can't you just use the jokaero model in place of a tactical marine?

I'd go with shooty terminators.

Do you need that many combi weapons? particularly when the melta/flamers are TL? You could trim most of them off and pay for a scout squad.

Having the single servitor does serve a purpose. When counting what has to start on the table, he's another unit. So you could deep strike your terminators if you wanted to.

I need the MotF if I want to take two Sterns, Terms and Dread, as he changes the Dread from Elite to Heavy. Not sure more troops would help, I can combat squad them into 4 units, and hopefully by the time they're podding on there'll be less time for things to kill them. Vulk and the MotF were intended share a pod with the Sterns to add to the alpha strike.

I may just sub the Jok for a marine, but I do like the idea of him just hanging out on his own Plus as Nevelon says, it lets me DS the termies which I guess is a bonus.

I am in two minds about Vulkan. My current army is IG so maybe I overvalue TL forgetting that marines can actually hit things pretty reliably anyway. A Liby is quite tempting, and had originally had one in place of MOTF and dropped the dread in place of more termies, but I decided I really wanted the Contemptor dread model in the army.

I'll have a think about changes. Also, what about Thuderfire cannons? I've heard good things about them in 6th, but with this list probably too much danger of hitting my own guys?

More troops would help. Thing is you can't put only one combat squad in a pod so they can combatsquad but only in the same place.

The obvious answer here is to swap vulkan for pedro. It'd probably look something like this:

pedro
librarian
10 sternguard
10 sternguard
10 termies
10 tacs
10 tacs

A suicide melta dred is very useful though. Another option:

pedro
motf
10 sternguard
10 sternguard
dred
dred
10 tacs
10 tacs

10 hammernators are very useful though...
You could of course do something else entirely but I'd still drop vulkan because not only is he expensive but he removes combat tactics.

My first idea for a list was very similar to your pedro/ 10 termies one. However, Pedro still takes away combat tactics, gives stubborn to units and he's only 15 points cheaper than Vulk (and I think Vulkans wargear is better). If he made Sternguard a troops choice he’d be great, but personally I’m not convinced just making them scoring is worth it. One option might be to not use either and instead have a Libby (100pts) and 5 Scouts with Camo Cloaks (90pts)?

Just to check, if I Combat Squad the Tacs I could have two five man squads on the table at deployment and then the other two squads arriving by pod to give a bit of flexibility on where they are?

Dundas wrote:
Just to check, if I Combat Squad the Tacs I could have two five man squads on the table at deployment and then the other two squads arriving by pod to give a bit of flexibility on where they are?

No, you choose whether or not to combatsquad them when the pod lands.
You could however choose to drop one pod empty and combatsquad its dudes, but you've still got only one pod of marines left.

Dundas wrote:
My first idea for a list was very similar to your pedro/ 10 termies one. However, Pedro still takes away combat tactics, gives stubborn to units and he's only 15 points cheaper than Vulk (and I think Vulkans wargear is better). If he made Sternguard a troops choice he’d be great, but personally I’m not convinced just making them scoring is worth it. One option might be to not use either and instead have a Libby (100pts) and 5 Scouts with Camo Cloaks (90pts)?

Scoring is a big deal. Pod armies do get to place their squads anywhere but those squads have low mobility and little protection so are fragile. And as stated they're not as good at covering ground/splitting up as rhino squads.

Personally I'd be more inclined to ditch the sternguard entirely in favor of more tactical squads or allied grey hunters. It kinda kills your alphastrike but it's kind of a gimmick anyway compared to just using the pods as a movement/tactical advantage. Plus you still got dreads to throw down.

I've been dabbling with the idea of DG legion for a while.

I think the BA Dex may do it better because you have access to wide spread FNP.

Consider:
Libbi
Assault Marines
Assault Marines
Sternguard
Sternguard/Terminators
Sang Priests
Pred
Pred


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Otherwise I like the Idea of Pedro but would suggest the use of min scout squads to fill compulsory Troop requirements in order to save points for more valuable units ('cause tacs stink)

I like lysander in a drop pod with sternguard as he can take get out infront and take all the shots! lol

Pedro would be better in your list as he would give you the scoring unts and you wouldnt need vulkan with all the extra combi weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whats your anti-flyer plans?

A hell drake would kill your whole army.

 Icelord wrote:
I like lysander in a drop pod with sternguard as he can take get out infront and take all the shots! lol

Pedro would be better in your list as he would give you the scoring unts and you wouldnt need vulkan with all the extra combi weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whats your anti-flyer plans?

A hell drake would kill your whole army.

Hooray, Flyers!!!!

Yeah the scout squads could work but I assume OP wants everything in pods or deep striking. The codex astartes names this maneuver steel rain etc.

Heldrakes are going to be a problem but that's true for any army and they may not even show up. I'd be more worried about strong and fast assault units and fast shooty units that easily concentrate and redistribute force and refuse ground (bike armies, venomspam).

Because of those threats I think you need hammernators and some sort of ranged support to work a drop pod army. Riflemen or thunderfires or even devs.

Devs are overpriced.

How about sw allies? A psycher and some grey hunters in a pod. You could take long fangs.

 Icelord wrote:
Devs are overpriced.

So are space marine kits. As with devs, some armies have a need for them.

 Icelord wrote:
How about sw allies? A psycher and some grey hunters in a pod. You could take long fangs.

Yeah I mentioned GH earlier to replace the sternguard. Too bad you only get one heavy slot for long fangs.
You could of course take SW as the primary detachment. Or maybe do something like this...

librarian
motf
dred w/MM
dred w/MM
10 hammernators
10 tacs w/MM, 2FL
10 tacs w/MM, 2FL
rifleman
rifleman
thunderfire (no pod)
1740

...it's still very light on troops but at least you've got combat tactics.

I quite like the idea of the BA codex actually, I could use the FW apothacary models to stand in for priests and the like, may check that out. I was also going for the whole Orbital Strike thing, and BA may suit that better anyway.

I'm a bit anti SW, half the club plays them and I find them a bit cheesy.

Have had a look at the marine FAQ, and I think you can now choose whether to combat squad before choosing whether to deploy in pod or not. However, I know I'm still light on scoring even with that.

As I say in the first post, it's more a list for a local campaign that a tournamant list. I'm not likely to see more that 1-2 flyers at a time, and my plan was mostly to deploy agressively in the enemy deployment zone to minimise the ammount of hits I take from them. Twin linked melta was meant to help too. I've still to face a Helldrake, but can imagine they're pretty nasty.

I'll have a look at the BA codex, and another play with C:SM list and see what I can come up with. Cheers for all the help, some great advice.