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Okay I am pretty set on this as a first 50pt list but I am looking for input as to a second list

List 1
PButucher
Beast 09
Behemoth
IFP (Max) w Black Dragon UA
WGI (Max) w UA
Kovnik Joe
Man-o-War Drakhun w dismount
Manhunter

What would be a good companion to this list?
This is what I have
PSorchsa
Harkevich
Strakov
2 x Destroyer
2 x Jugger
Black Ivan
Spriggan
Demolisher/Devastator
Eliminators
Widowmakers
Manhunter
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (max)
Wardog
plus what is above

Suggestions?
thanks

Papasmurf

My suggestion is if you are heading to a Steam Roller, you are causing yourself grief with tieing up Beast and Behemoth in the same list. If you are considering Butcher, you might want to Shift Beast 09 to work with pSorcha or even eSorcha. Instead of Beast I'd run the Spriggan with Butcher as Bull Doze is fantastic. Add in full throttle / trampling and the Spriggan can really clear some room out for Butcher OR a Behemoth flup trample to the warcaster / lock

Then if Sorscha prime or epic, can have the winterguard also your off to a good start, they are not a character restriction so they can be in both lists. Joe is a character restriction so cannot go in both lists. Eliminators can work with either Butcher OR Sorcha, they have slightly more tarpit ability (iron flesh), and hitting power (fury plus feat) with butcher then Sorcha..

Definatly don't take Beast with behemoth, take 2 more jacks instead

Okay hows this for the Butcher List?
PButcher
Beast-09
Spriggan
War dog
Iron Fang Pikemen (Max) w Black Dragon UA
Kayazy Eliminators
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Max)
Man-o-war Drakhun w dismount
Manhunter
Manhunter
Yuri the Axe

With this as a secondary list

Harkevich
Behemoth
Black Ivan
War dog
Great Bears
Kayazy Eliminators
Widowmakers
Winter Guard Infantry (Max) w UA
Kovnik Joe
Man-o-war Drakhun w dismount)
Manhunter
Widowmaker Marksman

???

better? Worse?

Second lists look good. Not personally a fan of Man-O-Wars, but that's my opinion.

Looks like you have a good bit of speed you can hit hard and you can tarpit. Play it a bit I think you'll do well.

Not sure about the Man-o-War either, if I drop the puppy I can get the WG w UA and Joe back in list 1

Not really tourny lists just what I plan to use to improve, play two differing styles

cheers
Papasmurf

Do not drop the puppy. He is 1 point of awesome. With the puppy butcher goes from DEF 14 in combat, to DEF 16. Also read the puppies rules in depth, no free strikes as long as the caster is within a certain range. If used creatively, butcher can ignore some models who would typically free strike him, works even better with Epic Butcher

Many people will not even engage butcher if the wardog is close by. Also you are preventing assassinations from single wound models / low army models as the puppy can counter charge. Combo that with the Drakhun you have 2 models who can counter charge, that's a lot of hate / extra attacks in your opponents turn.

In my pButcher list I use Shocktroopers if I want to play more defensive. I've become more a fan of a unit of Regular Ironfangs with UA for almost identical points. Having a unit of Iron Fang Pikeman AND a unit of Black Dragons makes the opponents life hard.

I love the IFP but finding the cash for two units... well havent done that yet
So if I keep the puppy, drop a manhunter, grab another unit of IFP

Anything about the harkevich list? havent actually played him yet, very different from butcher

cheers
Papasmurf

Harkevich with Big B is gonna be just fine.

IFP in exchange for a single manhunter will probably be ok.

Meaning I drop the man-o-wars in the butcher list, means he cant hide as well but two units of IFP could be gross on feat turn
So here is final PButcher list

PButcher
Beast
Spriggan
Wardog
IFP (max) w Black Dragon UA
IFP (max) w UA
Kayazy Eliminators
Man-o-War Drahkun w dismount
Manhunter
Manhunter
Widowmaker marksmen

cheers
Papasmurf

Seems preety good