Vanilla marines slightly mech rush list.

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**Tiger9gamer**

Alright, I decided I want to try a mechinized rhino rush list, so I made a list last night and now subjegating it to dakka's scrutiny. also, don't want to take special characters with this list.

Warlord HQ: Captain Novem (artificer armor, relic blade, combi-plasma, Hellfire rounds)-165pts
HQ support: Librarian (Terminator armor, force stave, codex powers: Nullzone, Gate of Infinity)-125pts
Elite 1: Sternguard squad ( 7 man, x2 combi-meltas, x1 combi-flamer, power axe, Teleport homer, Rhino)-230pts
Elite 2: Tactical Terminator squad (x5 man, Assault cannon, x1 chainfist)-235pts
Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, Teleport Homer, Rhino)-220pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, melta bomb, Rhino)-205pts
Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, Rhino)-205pts
F/A 1: Storm Talon w/ typhoon missile launcher-155pts
H/S 1: Vindicator w/ stormbolter-125p
H/S 2: Vindicator w/ Stormbolter-125p
H/S 3: Devastators ( 5 man, x3 missile launchers)-135p
Aegis line w/ icarius-75pts
total: 2000pts

No, I don't want my captain to take a bike. I don't even have a bike for him.
No, I don't have drop pods.

Gameplan

Warlord jumps into sternguard's rhino while librarian joins the other terminators, and I plan on making a 'convoy' of the troop choices and elite 1. on the weakest flank, while my vindicators go together to provide a threat. Rhinos go flat out towards enemy, and librarion uses gate of infinity to jump to teleport homers. I want to give the enemy a choice between shooting at the rhinos, or the vindicators.

Alright, there is the strategy. have at it!

**Martel732**

I'd give all sternguard combi-melta and all tactical sergeants as well. And put special weapons in the tactical squads. You need stuff to do once you rush.

I believe Aegis Line is 100 pts w/quad gun.

Otherwise, looks battle worthy more or less.

**ectoplastic**

I think you might run into trouble vs high AV. I understand the all bolter marines, no confusion about their role, but a couple of multi-meltas might give you an additional threat, in case the vindis get blown up fast. Also, might make your opponent think harder about what to shoot.

Not a fan of the power axe, I find power mauls more versatile for the same point cost. +2 Str, so better chance of popping tanks in melee, no unwieldy... Worse AP, sure, but if you get in melee vs meganobz or termies, your sterns are toast anyway.

Aegis with quad is 100 pts, not 75.

I imagine you made sure your local meta accepts Gate with teleport homers?

That's my two cents, hope it helps.

**Tiger9gamer**

ectoplastic wrote:
I think you might run into trouble vs high AV. I understand the all bolter marines, no confusion about their role, but a couple of multi-meltas might give you an additional threat, in case the vindis get blown up fast. Also, might make your opponent think harder about what to shoot.

Not a fan of the power axe, I find power mauls more versatile for the same point cost. +2 Str, so better chance of popping tanks in melee, no unwieldy... Worse AP, sure, but if you get in melee vs meganobz or termies, your sterns are toast anyway.

Aegis with quad is 100 pts, not 75.

I imagine you made sure your local meta accepts Gate with teleport homers?

That's my two cents, hope it helps.

whoops forgot to put down icarius lascannon X-X my bad. And finally, someone understands the All bolter squad! thank you!

I would take a power maul, but I already have a power axe using sergeant , so kinda stuck in that regard.

Do you think a multi-melta would be good in this situation? I don't have the model, but I can proxy with a heavy bolter.

I think they do accept gate & homer combo. not really sure what could state otherwise.

And thanks for the tips!

**Mr.Omega**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
Alright, I decided I want to try a mechinized rhino rush list, so I made a list last night and now subjegating it to dakka's scrutiny. also, don't want to take special characters with this list.

Warlord HQ: Captain Novem (artificer armor, relic blade, combi-plasma, Hellfire rounds)-165pts

The Captain is the most neglected and overpriced unit in the entire Space Marine Codex, he's absolutely worthless if he's not a bike. You don't have one, so I wouldn't take him. If you want a support unit for the Sternguard go with a barebones Librarian is my advice. The Avenger and Force Dome are the powers I'd take.

HQ support: Librarian (Terminator armor, force stave, codex powers: Nullzone, Gate of Infinity)-125pts

This guy isn't really worth it honestly, because the whole teleport homer idea isn't the best use of the almost 400 points you are pumping into the unit. An assault cannon and a few storm bolters is not going to turn the tide of the battle, are going to get shot the hell out of for the rest of the turn they use GOI and they probably won't be in range to charge anything in the following turn, not even taking into account the small margin of elite units they can actually take on.

Elite 1: Sternguard squad ( 7 man, x2 combi-meltas, x1 combi-flamer, power axe, Teleport homer, Rhino)-230pts

Should really be at least 3 of one combi-weapon in here to be effective. Anything the extra CC capability of Sternguard can't handle isn't going to be solved by a power axe, so i'd dump it.

Elite 2: Tactical Terminator squad (x5 man, Assault cannon, x1 chainfist)-235pts
Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, Teleport Homer, Rhino)-220pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, melta bomb, Rhino)-205pts
Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, Rhino)-205pts

F/A 1: Storm Talon w/ typhoon missile launcher-155pts

H/S 1: Vindicator w/ stormbolter-125p
H/S 2: Vindicator w/ Stormbolter-125p

Everything up until this point I actually like and is almost a duplicate of what I would take myself.

H/S 3: Devastators ( 5 man, x3 missile launchers)-135p

While this squad gives me gripes (not having 4 missile launchers, overpriced unit in general- goddamn Long Fang squads are 20 points cheaper and get an ability twice as good and an additional missile launcher) Devastators are pretty much the only decent source of S8 AT in C:SM and you need something to man the Aegis.

Aegis line w/ icarius-75pts
total: 2000pts

No, I don't want my captain to take a bike. I don't even have a bike for him.
No, I don't have drop pods.

Gameplan

Warlord jumps into sternguard's rhino while librarian joins the other terminators, and I plan on making a 'convoy' of the troop choices and elite 1. on the weakest flank, while my vindicators go together to provide a threat. Rhinos go flat out towards enemy, and librarion uses gate of infinity to jump to teleport homers. I want to give the enemy a choice between shooting at the rhinos, or the vindicators.

Alright, there is the strategy. have at it!

You've got a nice fluffy list but competitively the Captain and Librarian/Termies combo waste a large chunk of your points.

**Tiger9gamer**

@Mr.omega

HQ gripes duly noted, and the captain is mostly for fluff/fun. if he doesn't perform that well later on, I may switch him out for Asarath Redth (mantis warrior guy) and take divination powers along with the ability to make them cloaked.

For now, I really want to try the captain out. The terminator librarian is a model I just got, want to try him out too. other than that thanks for the advice!

**Deuce11**

I'll be honest, and I am not trying to troll, but i do not believe in your concept.

4 rhinos is far from overwhelming. If you dont get first turn I fear your list wont stand a chance.

Vanilla Vindicators are too slow to work well in your list. They cannot keep up with your rhinos and are too short range to be valuable sitting back.

If you were to change this list to BA I would be singing a different tune. Fast Rhinos, Fast Vindicators, cheaper devestators.... you've just improved every unit you use by jumping rule sets.

**Tiger9gamer**

Deuce11 wrote:
I'll be honest, and I am not trying to troll, but i do not believe in your concept.

4 rhinos is far from overwhelming. If you dont get first turn I fear your list wont stand a chance.

Vanilla Vindicators are too slow to work well in your list. They cannot keep up with your rhinos and are too short range to be valuable sitting back.

If you were to change this list to BA I would be singing a different tune. Fast Rhinos, Fast Vindicators, cheaper devestators.... you've just improved every unit you use by jumping rule sets.

I knew the BA thing was coming

but I do kinda want to go blood angels one time. would this list be more expensive for the BA?

**Deuce11**

It might be, I am not positive. But you have some room to min/max. I don't think you would have to change anything drastically.

**Tiger9gamer**

fair enough. may try that in the future.

or dark angels.

**spartiatis**

Never leave home without Dozer Blades on your Vindis!!

They need to stay in cover and go in and out cover to fire effectively and cover ground quickly.

I would also give your Sterns more combi-weapons

**Tiger9gamer**

alright... won the game, but lost most of my army in the process.,..

a win is a win

**Tiger9gamer**

sorry for the double post, but I made a new list design!

Warlord HQ: Captain Novem (Artificer armor, power fist, lightning claw)-155pts
HQ support: Chaplain (plasma pistol)-115pts
Elite 1: Tactical Terminator squad (x5 man, heavy flamer, x1 chainfist, land raider redeemer w/ multi-melta)-460pts
Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, powersword, Rhino)-220pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, melta gun, melta bomb, Rhino)-210pts
Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, melta gun, combi-melta, Rhino)-220pts
F/A 1: Storm Talon w/ typhoon-155pts
H/S 1: Vindicator w/ stormbolter-125p
H/S 2: Vindicator w/ Stormbolter-125p
H/S 3: Devastators ( 5 man, x3 missile launchers)-135p
Aegis line w/ icarius-75pts
2000pts

**Deuce11**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
sorry for the double post, but I made a new list design!

Warlord HQ: Captain Novem (Artificer armor, power fist, lightning claw)-155pts
HQ support: Chaplain (plasma pistol)-115pts
Elite 1: Tactical Terminator squad (x5 man, heavy flamer, x1 chainfist, land raider redeemer w/ multi-melta)-460pts
Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, powersword, Rhino)-220pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, melta gun, melta bomb, Rhino)-210pts
Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, melta gun, combi-melta, Rhino)-220pts
F/A 1: Storm Talon w/ typhoon-155pts
H/S 1: Vindicator w/ stormbolter-125p
H/S 2: Vindicator w/ Stormbolter-125p
H/S 3: Devastators ( 5 man, x3 missile launchers)-135p
Aegis line w/ icarius-75pts
2000pts

Why the Captain at all? I personally think he is a waste of points.
Why no more libbi?
Why Redeemer over the other patterns of LR? Land Raiders are STRONGER now that melta is less prevalent but the Redeemer must enter melta threat range to be effective AND melta is more deadly now than ever. Either other pattern would be better for your purposes in my opinion.
Take away all of the cc options from your tac squads and give them combi-weapons or melta bombs.
Dozer blades on the vindi!!!!!
Why not change the Dev squad to a Scout squad with cloaks, snipers, ML and Sgt. Talon (sp?)? I don't think you lose much in terms of fire power, and it is scoring, and it is probably cheaper. Talon mans the icarus, obviously.

**Tiger9gamer**

Well, I kinda like the vanilla captain. he is pretty damn cheap, and can dish out a really good amount of CC ability with either powerfisting or lightning claws. also wanted a chaplain instead of a libby.

I'm switching to crusader now, as One game saw it blow up too dang quickly by a melta-shot. Also taking assault terminators

switched the tactical builds in a new list.

I don't have the models for a scout squad.
Now, I'm planning on jumping on the new bandwagon for DA, as I'm kinda sick of vanilla marines. hopefully I don't suck with that too.

Warlord HQ: Captain Novem (Artificer armor, power fist, lightning claw)-155pts
HQ support: Chaplain (plasma pistol)-115pts
Elite 1: Assault Terminator squad (x5 man, all TH/SS, land raider crusader w/ multi-melta)-460pts
Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man, flamer, heavy bolter, combi-flamer Rhino)-215pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, plasma gun, combi-plasma Rhino)-225pts
Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, melta gun, combi-melta, Rhino)-220pts
F/A 1: Storm Talon w/ typhoon-155pts
H/S 1: Vindicator w/ stormbolter-125p
H/S 2: Vindicator w/ Stormbolter-125p
H/S 3: Devastators ( 5 man, x3 missile launchers)-135p
Aegis line w/ icarius-75pts
2000pts

**McNinja**

We aren't subjugating anything. You are subjecting the list to our scrutiny, not taking the list and making it our slave.

**Tiger9gamer**

thank you for that.

now what about my lists.

**Mr.Omega**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
Well, I kinda like the vanilla captain. he is pretty damn cheap, and can dish out a really good amount of CC ability with either powerfisting or lightning claws. also wanted a chaplain instead of a libby.

I'm switching to crusader now, as One game saw it blow up too dang quickly by a melta-shot. Also taking assault terminators

switched the tactical builds in a new list.

I don't have the models for a scout squad.
Now, I'm planning on jumping on the new bandwagon for DA, as I'm kinda sick of vanilla marines. hopefully I don't suck with that too.

Warlord HQ: Captain Novem (Artificer armor, power fist, lightning claw)-155pts
HQ support: Chaplain (plasma pistol)-115pts
Elite 1: Assault Terminator squad (x5 man, all TH/SS, land raider crusader w/ multi-melta)-460pts
Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man, flamer, heavy bolter, combi-flamer Rhino)-215pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, plasma gun, combi-plasma Rhino)-225pts
Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, melta gun, combi-melta, Rhino)-220pts
F/A 1: Storm Talon w/ typhoon-155pts
H/S 1: Vindicator w/ stormbolter-125p
H/S 2: Vindicator w/ Stormbolter-125p
H/S 3: Devastators ( 5 man, x3 missile launchers)-135p
Aegis line w/ icarius-75pts
2000pts

I like the list, the only things I wouldn't take myself is the Captain (as much as I'd like to my local gaming environment is filled with people who only want to win regardless of how friendly they are) the Vindicator Storm Bolters, and the Heavy Bolter on troop 1. I too will be switching to DA when that Codex comes out, C:SM is so bad I actually spent a few days last month writing a 2800 word essay on its biggest flaws in word... no idea if Dakka wants to see it or not.

**Tiger9gamer**

I would like to if it's in any case!

Lost so many times I can't count the ways. Although it has to do with the fact I have been playing the same list for an entire year

maybe if i got drop pods things would have been better.

I now the captain isnt the most popular choice, but I like that build. used it once, but lost more due to my legendarily bad dice rolling. in any case, he went up against a wolf guard and was dealing out 3-4 wounds a turn. he could have ripped the guy apart if it wasn't for the wolf guard making all the saves

planning on taking this guy to the DA codex, too.

**Deuce11**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
I would like to if it's in any case! Lost so many times I can't count the ways. Although it has to do with the fact I have been playing the same list for an entire year maybe if i got drop pods things would have been better.

I now the captain isnt the most popular choice, but I like that build. used it once, but lost more due to my legendarily bad dice rolling. in any case, he went up against a wolf guard and was dealing out 3-4 wounds a turn. he could have ripped the guy apart if it wasn't for the wolf guard making all the saves planning on taking this guy to the DA codex, too.

Hey, do as you will. It is a hobby and the point is to have fun, so enjoy your captain. The members here are simply pointing out that a captain is not the most competitive choice for the codex.

**Mr.Omega**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
I would like to if it's in any case! Lost so many times I can't count the ways. Although it has to do with the fact I have been playing the same list for an entire year maybe if i got drop pods things would have been better.

I now the captain isnt the most popular choice, but I like that build. used it once, but lost more due to my legendarily bad dice rolling. in any case, he went up against a wolf guard and was dealing out 3-4 wounds a turn. he could have ripped the guy apart if it wasn't for the wolf guard making all the saves planning on taking this guy to the DA codex, too.

I am hoping that the DA codex will get the 65 point standard treatment that C:CSM got. Hopefully it won't force people to take an iron halo either.

**goodriddans2**

I would get 10 man scots with Telion and a rocket launcher and stick them in cover with a thunder fire cannon

**Martel732**

This would much better with drop pods. I feel that since everyone is in "glance" mode, the Rhinos will have a hard time of it.

Dump the missile launcher devs. Missile launchers suck, and especially for vanilla marines. Get real weapons or get a different squad.

**Tiger9gamer**

yeesh O-o wow, martel. the missile launchers can do good things, but my dice rolling kinda sucks.

and sure, I know I would shoot at those puny rhinos if someone put down 2 vindicators and a land raider.

**Martel732**

Missile launchers are garbage. Take them at your own risk.

**Kasrkin229**

From what I see your trying armour sateration like what I do with my guard list , I take 6 Chimeras when I do that in addition to 2 Russ s and a couple gunships , and bear in mind , my Transports are AV 12 - dump the storm bolters , also if I recall vindicator s are AV13 correct ? You have nothing with any serious long range AT ability to the point were I would wipe out your transports on the first volley and procede to wipe out your isolated bands of troops . Mobility is the name of the game , how wars are fought now and I fight mine in 40k that way , I out manuver my opponent , and crush them with combine firepower , my suggestion get some serious Anti armour not this Melta gun crap , ditch those missle launchers for multi Meltas or lascannons ( lascannons to synergize with the Icarus ) just my suggestion , take it with fruit I'f you wish

**ghpoobah**

The trouble with tank Saturation in Marines is they just don't have enough of them....

Ensuring sufficient seperation to prevent being templated to death by Guard means that your attack waves arrive bitty.

That being said, its nice to know that someone else plays with Vanilla marines, although I go drop pod tastic and run a libby with Gate and a couple of squads of Stermguard.

Plus, the man is doing ok, as he said a win is a win. If you run with it and can make it work then stick with it!

Captain is under utilised IMHO, good solid character just misses out on some of the cool stuff, definately better than a Libby

Re Blood Angels, Fast Vindi's and faster Rhino's is ok, but you do pay more for the pleasure as you would expect

**Tiger9gamer**

Well, won one game but lost another. anyways switching to dark angels immediately.

hopefully the Guardians of the Covenant will be better than my iron knights.

as Khar said, too little tank saturation, but still It's all i have.

If i could take Tyberos and 4 Assault terminator squads in land raiders, you bet i would!