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Needing critiques and criticism, please.

Lords -
1. Battle Wizard Lord
-Level 4 Wizard
-Uses spells from the Lore of Life
-Talisman of Preservation (Grants bearer a 4+ ward save)
Total - 245 pts

Heroes -
1. Captain of The Empire
-Battle Standard Bearer
-Armour of Meteoric Iron (Grants bearer a 1+ armour save
and a 6+ ward save)
2. Battle Wizard
-Level 2 wizard
-Uses spells from the Lore of Beasts
3. 2x Warrior Priests
Total - 365 pts

Rare -
1. Celestial Hurricanum
Total - 130 pts

Special -
1. 30x Greatswords
-1x Standard Bearer
2. 3x Great Cannons
Total - 700 pts

Core -
1. 60x Halberdiers
-1x Standard Bearer
-1x Sergeant
2. 30x Swordsmen
-Detachment, supporting Halberdiers
3. 15x Knights of the Inner Circle
-Standard Bearer
Total - 975 pts

Banners -
1. Steel Standard (Knights of The Inner Circle - Unit takes no movement
penalties for barding)
2. Razor Standard (Greatswords - Unit has the "Armour Piercing"
special rule)
Total - 80 pts

Grand Total: 2,495 pts

The Halberdier horde anchors the center of the line, with the Swordsmen and Greatswords on its flanks.
The Knights of the Inner Circle take position on the far flank, opposite the Greatswords, next to the Swordsmen.
One Warrior Priest in the Halberdier/Greatswords unit. LVL4 and BSB go in the Halberdier horde, while the
LVL2 goes with the Greatswords. Cannons deployed behind lines, preferably on elevated terrain.

I'm set on my Core/Special choices (except for the third cannon, may swap it out, but my common opponents will
be running ALOT of high-powered characters/monsters), and the Hurricanum stays for sure, but it's my Lord/Hero
choices I keep flip-flopping on. Thoughts would be really helpful!

I think that armour peircing for the greatsword unit is fairly redundant. Not many troops have armour better than 4+ except cavalry and with 8th edition few people use them. So thats 45 points you can spend else where for slightly better results.

I would trim the KotIC down to 10 they are a pretty good cav unit but they aren't brettonians, and you have better options available to you. Such as Demi-Gryph's.

3 cannons is pretty beastly however, one thing to keep in mind, they are monster killers more than anything, you can have greater success by taking 1 cannon and 2 mortars or 2 cannons 1 mortar just so you have some AoE for bigger footprint infantry. Mortars really are the bane of core units in warhammer, due to the low point cost and heavy damage possibilities. I would definately consider all warmachines you have available to you, maybe fit in a hellblaster volley. Though steamtanks on the other hand aren't so amazing in the new army book, they are still pretty potent and still very hard to kill.

The lack of musicians can really upset your tactics if you face anyone with any flyers, fast cav, or chariots. It doesnt cost many points and being able to reform a little and move can be very important to distrupting enemy flanking tactics, and ensuring you almost always are fighting head on.

Overall the list is very unique and you will catch a lot of players off guard with it. I would consider taking some gunners just because gunpowder ranged troops really shine against heavily armoured foes and monsters. Even though you are set on core and special choices. Maybe toss that 35point armour on your wizard for a 5+ save? probably not worth it since hes bunkered down in the 60 horde... Just a thought, though you could do 40 horde and 20 block for slightly better results. Anyways look forward to hearing how your list did. Good luck!

I'll probably switch banners, I took the Razor Standard just to fill out points. As for the KotIC, I've heard both ways on that. Some people
have told me a unit of 10, ran 5x2, is sufficient, others have said you need a MINIMUM of 15 to make a difference. The nice thing is,
if I go 15x to start, I can always cut it back to 10x if I find I'm lack in other areas.

The 3 cannons are a bit redundant I know, but when facing the likes of a Bloodthirster, Helcannon, Teclis, and the like, I wanted to make
sure the job got done. I AM magnetizing all of my artillery so I can switch between cannons/mortars at will, though.

I would love nothing more than to find space to fit in handgunners, but at 9 points a model, they get a bit pricey.... If I did drop KotIC
down to 10, and swap a few things around, I could fit a detachment of 15-20.

What are your thoughts on my Lord/Hero combination? This is the area I've struggled the most with. Also, choice of lores?
I wanted to run Life on the lvl 4 for the buffs, and the lvl 2 being a Wyssans caster, furthering my augments.

Life and beasts are good, fire is another option as well. It depends on if you think you will face lots of regeneration guys. If so you obviously want fire. Other wise Life and Beast will be overly sufficient.

The hand gunners do add up a lot at 9 points especially cause they are a much lower range than typical bows but the armour mod is really nice. I would almost suggest trimming the knights specifically for them.

(edit)I really like the hero / lord choices over all, but really you could go Life Beast Fire and cover all your bases though im not sure you want to sacrifice anything for another wizard. Then the fact you have 2 hate mongers (warrior priests) you will get a lot done with the halberdiers.

I guess with Bloodthirsters (though i dont think worth the points) Telics hellcannons ect running a muck 3 cannons will make sure the job is done. Though telics will be entitled to a look out sir and he wont be dieing unless you get extremely lucky. Bloodthirsters can really ruin your day if unprepared same with a good shooting phase from a dual hellcannon WoC army.

I still wish you had some demi gryphs (I personally just love those things) in the list but overall it looks solid. I know for any of my lists i normally use with the exception of my Khorne/Nurgle DoC list or any of my heavy shooting lists I'd have to think long and hard about where I moved and deployed. Those halberds are going to make any moster think twice just because of the sheer numbers. Great job m8.

I came up with another draft of the list, based on a few of your suggestions man! I appreciate the feedback!

Lords -
1. Battle Wizard Lord
-Level 4 Wizard
-Uses spells from the Lore of Life
-Talisman of Preservation (Grants bearer a 4+ ward save)
Total - 245 pts

Heroes -
1. Captain of The Empire
-Battle Standard Bearer
-Armour of Meteoric Iron (Grants bearer a 1+ armour save
and a 6+ ward save)
2. Battle Wizard
-Level 2 wizard
-Uses spells from the Lore of Beasts
3. 2x Warrior Priests
Total - 365 pts

Rare -
1. Celestial Hurricanum
Total - 130 pts

Special -
1. 30x Greatswords
-1x Standard Bearer
2. 2x Great Cannons
3. 1x Mortar
Total - 680 pts

Core -
1. 60x Halberdiers
-1x Standard Bearer
-1x Sergeant
-1x Musician
2. 30x Swordsmen
-Detachment, supporting Halberdiers
3. 20x Handgunners
-Detachment, supporting Halberdiers
4. 10x Knights of the Inner Circle
-Standard Bearer
-1x Musician
Total - 1050 pts

Banners -
1. Standard of Discipline (Knights of The Inner Circle - Adds +1 to Unit's
LD; Cannot use General's "Inspiring Presence")
2. Banner of Eternal Flame (Greatswords - Unit has the "Flaming Attacks"
special rule)
Total - 25 pts



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I've thought about the Gryphs, they hit like a truck and a Lanced knight with a 1+ save
makes them have staying power, but with the points cost, I'd probably cut most/all of my shooting
out and make the list solely close-combat based, bumping the knights back up to 15 and making
it a bunch of Imperial Samurai

Now that list IMO is a lot more balanced. The great swords can kill anything now where as a troll reigment or any regenerating unit would give them a real work out. Also though its only 20 hand gun's, they can do a pretty decent amount of damage since anything even moderately armoured will fall to a bullet more times than not. Giving you a few more options in positioning and movement of troops. I also really like 2 great cannons 1 mortar. Before 3 cannons was overly redundant but now you can effectively drop a monsterous threat by end of friendly turn 2, and still have some area cover for lightly armoured units.

I feel that before the addition of the mortar the army was too linear and focused entirely on killing big guys with nothing that really worked on chaff/scrub blocks other than the swordsmen. Especially since greatswords though good with their 4+ save, can sustain substantial casualties from chaff units and are best preserved for monsters or heavy Calvary.

Now my only real concern with the army is since the halberds have such a large footprint adding in the 2 detachments, I am a little affraid of them being able to get a match-up that they favor or that you personally would consider ideal, it is also likely for them to encounter a congo line of MSU (atleast where i tend to play) and be stuck claiming 60 victory points a turn for 4 turns (yuck!). So you have to be very careful as that block with detachments unless unattached is a good 32ish % of the army. Nothing worse than 800-ish points sitting around the entire game claiming only 2-300 total victory points. Granted you can detatch as you see fit, and it is improbably for any opponent to have something to specifially deal with this, still something you always must consider.

I guess my only question remains then, with an army list styled like that, recommended layout? I was thinking KotIC on one flank, with the
Halberdier/detachments anchoring the center, and the Greatswords on the opposite flank. Halbs probably running 8x5, Swords 5x4, Greatswords
6x5, but how to set the handgunners? I don't know their shooting rules off the top of my head. Can just the first rank fire, or more than that? And
would it be better to split that Handgunner detachment into TWO detachments, 10x each, one for the halbs, one for the Greatswords?

Also, in a list that's got a bit more shooting in it like this, is the Hurricanum a wise investment? I like it for the +1 to hit, and was planning to keep it right
between and slightly behind the Halbs and Greatswords, but I could subtract it for another mortar, or even a naked general for LD 9 (Since I'll have
an extra one just lying around from the General/Captain kit )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops, meant Halbs 10x6, Swordsmen 6x5

Gunners can fire in 2 ranks. though I do not think they get volley fire where they can take half shots from ranks 3+. Not 100% on that would have to look at work so I can't clarify, I never put my gunners in more than 2 ranks before...

Hurricanum is hit and miss always its either amazing or nothing so that really comes to your play style. Against high WS opponents it is a MUST!; however, you said you expect to play monsters and what not mostly so they generally have a lower more hittable WS. I think that hitting on 3's with s4+ against monsters helps a lot since you will see a decrease in wounding odds regardless due to most being t5/6. One thing you have to consider the 50mm bases, with mortar template you hit maybe 7? With 1 direct under the hole. With hurricanum you get atleast 11 attacks +1 to hit per round.

As for the gunners 10x2 or 2 5x2 Either will be sufficient it depends on how you suspect the enemy to deploy, or who your facing. Example being vs say wood elves scaven, you will get better results from 2 sets of 5x2 gunners, against ogres or daemons since they are tough or in the case of daemons, never die, 10x2 will give a better result.


Setting the anchor with halbs and sords will work flanked by knights one side and GS the other side will probably be the best. If you go with 2 5x2 gunners right side detach of GS with other gunner right side of Halbs, so you cover the battle field. One thing to watch though with all these detachments and massive unit blocks is cannon/mortar LoS. Just be careful with your placement.