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So if a Deamon Prince from the new Chaos codex takes the Black Mace, would the BM be AP 4 like it says in the stats for it or would it use the MC rules and have an AP of 2?

The Black Mace is AP4, but the Smash USR states that all attacks made by a model with Smash are AP2. So Smash will override.

It's a lot of points, but it's a good combo.

The Black Mace is pretty awesome on a Daemon Prince, but I think the Murder Blade accomplishes much the same effect. For the most part I use Daemon Princes to hunt big stuff, tanks and MCs. The Curse doesn't do much with either of those, as MCs only fail the Toughness test on a 6, and all those AP2 S10 attacks (you should always Smash attack vs tanks and MCs) will usually kill anything, at Initiative 8 !!!

I have found the Black Mace on a Nurgle Biker Lord works very nicely, but I run him with Spawn rather than other Bikers now. You can charge them into almost any infantry unit (other than Terminators) and expect good killy results.

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
The Black Mace is pretty awesome on a Daemon Prince, but I think the Murder Blade accomplishes much the same effect. For the most part I use Daemon Princes to hunt big stuff, tanks and MCs. The Curse doesn't do much with either of those, as MCs only fail the Toughness test on a 6, and all those AP2 S10 attacks (you should always Smash attack vs tanks and MCs) will usually kill anything, at Initiative 8 !!!

I have found the Black Mace on a Nurgle Biker Lord works very nicely, but I run him with Spawn rather than other Bikers now. You can charge them into almost any infantry unit (other than Terminators) and expect good killy results.

The Mace has Fleshbane, why would you Smash with it against MCs?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
The Black Mace is pretty awesome on a Daemon Prince, but I think the Murder Blade accomplishes much the same effect. For the most part I use Daemon Princes to hunt big stuff, tanks and MCs. The Curse doesn't do much with either of those, as MCs only fail the Toughness test on a 6, and all those AP2 S10 attacks (you should always Smash attack vs tanks and MCs) will usually kill anything, at Initiative 8 !!!

I have found the Black Mace on a Nurgle Biker Lord works very nicely, but I run him with Spawn rather than other Bikers now. You can charge them into almost any infantry unit (other than Terminators) and expect good killy results.

The Mace has Fleshbane, why would you Smash with it against MCs?

Yeah? On a DP the Black Mace is clearly the better choice in all situations except when the Murder Sword is on and you happen to be in combat with a vehicle and your target and don't have to smash. Either way you're going to smash against vehicles and the Mace will give you more attacks and a better game against a wide variety of targets.

How does the Murder Sword do the same thing as the Mace? It's not a daemon weapon, so it doesn't give all those extra attacks.

Yeah, having 2+D6 Str10 attacks seems a wheck of a lot better then what the sword gives you.

3, +1 for charging, +D6

(Halve 5 to 2.5, round up)

The sword's still pretty cool, for its purpose- to make a given enemy character (including many Monstrous Creatures like Dreadknights and Hive Tyrants) practically guaranteed to die if they wind up in combat with the guy armed with it. The fact that you pick which character just before turn 1 starts makes it hard for your opponent to negate its use.

But that is definitely a different role than the Mace fills.

 Mannahnin wrote:
The sword's still pretty cool, for its purpose- to make a given enemy character (including many Monstrous Creatures like Dreadknights and Hive Tyrants) practically guaranteed to die if they wind up in combat with the guy armed with it. The fact that you pick which character just before turn 1 starts makes it hard for your opponent to negate its use.

But that is definitely a different role than the Mace fills.

You can smash with the black mace giving your 3+charge+D6 attacks that inflict instant death against many HQs, and against any MC which would be usually T6+ therefore immune to the ID from S10, your average wounds on charge would be 5.2777, so, you have a high probability of killing any MC on the first round.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
The sword's still pretty cool, for its purpose- to make a given enemy character (including many Monstrous Creatures like Dreadknights and Hive Tyrants) practically guaranteed to die if they wind up in combat with the guy armed with it. The fact that you pick which character just before turn 1 starts makes it hard for your opponent to negate its use.

But that is definitely a different role than the Mace fills.

You can smash with the black mace giving your 3+charge+D6 attacks that inflict instant death against many HQs, and against any MC which would be usually T6+ therefore immune to the ID from S10, your average wounds on charge would be 5.2777, so, you have a high probability of killing any MC on the first round.

The Black Mace wounds on a 2+. No need to smash against another MC.

Gundor wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
The sword's still pretty cool, for its purpose- to make a given enemy character (including many Monstrous Creatures like Dreadknights and Hive Tyrants) practically guaranteed to die if they wind up in combat with the guy armed with it. The fact that you pick which character just before turn 1 starts makes it hard for your opponent to negate its use.

But that is definitely a different role than the Mace fills.

You can smash with the black mace giving your 3+charge+D6 attacks that inflict instant death against many HQs, and against any MC which would be usually T6+ therefore immune to the ID from S10, your average wounds on charge would be 5.2777, so, you have a high probability of killing any MC on the first round.

The Black Mace wounds on a 2+. No need to smash against another MC.

Yes, that 5.2777 is calculated with full attacks and no smash, however when facing a MEQ HQ is best to smash, even if you already wound on 2+, sacrificing 2 attacks for making all your attacks instant death is never a bad idea.

Indeed, but only if you will cause ID. If its a T6 MC or something with EW you want as many attacks as possable.

Damn, I guess I just assumed the Murder Sword was a Daemon Weapon. That's approaching the usefulness of the Dimensional Key :*( Oh well, I will probably never ever use it now, glad I didn't make a special arm for one. Lightning Claws look cool too.

Forgot about that fleshbane on the Mace, even more perfect for anti-MC carnage!

fleshbane is pretty legit.

I really like the idea that was thrown out there bout BM being on biker lord, I'll have to try it out.