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Belial

Level 2 Terminator Librarian

DW Command
- Standard of Retribution
- Champ w/ Halberd
- Assault Cannon
- 1x TH/SS

Rifleman Dread
Rifleman Dread
5x DW Knights

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Assault Cannon
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Assault Cannon
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Cyclone Missile Launcher
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

4x Ravenwing [Bike Squad]
- 3x bikes
- 1x Plasma Gun
- 1x MM Attack Bike

2000


I can make this more competitive by changing the single CML into an Assault Cannon and giving the bikes 2 Meltas instead of the 1 Plasma, however I have the bikes from the starter so i want to try and limit the amount of hobby work.

Reserve Strategy: The Libbi, two dreads, bike unit, and DW w/ CML all start on the board while the rest DW Assault from reserve. This is legal in the most conservative understanding of the reserve rules.

Is this locally competitive or is it bound to be curb-stomped? Too many toys?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That bad or that good?

I don't know about including the Retribution banner for 45 points. Do you think somone is going to be charging the Termies when they deep strike for it to go off?

I'm starting to think the Knights as Elites aren't worth the points either. Sure they have the extra toughness if two or three are stuck together but they can't shoot or score. The fear/Will 10 point relic is ok I suppose but fear rarely does anything in my games.

I had similar concerns.

Re. the Retribution banner, I think it is well priced but it has been brought to my attention that unless there are a lot of lightning claw termies, this might go to waste in DW because who is going to charge these terminators unless success in heavily in the attacker's favor? These slow terminators will probably die before the counter-attack can be put to use.

Alternative? Revered perhaps?

Re. Knights, I see them as AV14 and Monstrous creature killers. I cannot tell if they are worth it over regular TH/SS DW.

DW lists are tough because the upgrades are dirt cheap (but for the banners) but additional bodies are really expensive. So if I were to trim the banner, and the DWKnights down to DWT, what can I get for my points? Maybe a min Green Marine squad to protect the dreads and capture home objectives? That sounds cool I guess.

I think the banners dependence on certain situations to occur are a gamble and just too expensive to take for pretty much any list. There just isnt enough they offer for their points costs. Sadly, the same for the new fliers, not worth their points cost.

Some greenwing for backup would be cost effective. They've definitely lowered costs for regular units so skipping them altogether for the RW/DW pure list is silly. More bodies is a great thing and is far more viable than it was in the last codex with the new buffs and point costs.

I personnally like the DW banner for the extra attack regardless of who's charging. The powerfield generator is a nice option on the libby to provide a 4++ to your surrounding termies.

IIRC i was turned off by the 6 inch range of the DW Banner. HOwever thinking about it now, some utility is better than zero utility.

I need to look into that powerfield generator.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since I am at work, can someone tell me the point DIFFERENCE b/t the Retibution banner and the DW Company Banner? (Not the point cost but the difference, + or -) Thanks

Retribution gives a 12" counter attack bubble around the banner, the unit that has the banner gets +1A.

DW banner gives a 6" +1A bubble around the banner but on a per-model basis (as opposed to whole units for the retribution)

So I retract my previous statement, the retribution banner is probably more efficient for the same cost.

The powerfield generator provides a 3" bubble that provides a 4++ to models.

Ministry wrote:
I don't know about including the Retribution banner for 45 points. Do you think somone is going to be charging the Termies when they deep strike for it to go off?

I'm starting to think the Knights as Elites aren't worth the points either. Sure they have the extra toughness if two or three are stuck together but they can't shoot or score. The fear/Will 10 point relic is ok I suppose but fear rarely does anything in my games.

I actually like the knights. They present an "oh crap" situation for your opponent. Deal with them or face their wrath. With T5 and 2+ their good at absorbing small arms fire and the 3++ is good for taking everything else. Additionally, every bit of fire they take is fire not shot into your scoring terminators.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
Retribution gives a 12" counter attack bubble around the banner, the unit that has the banner gets +1A.

DW banner gives a 6" +1A bubble around the banner but on a per-model basis (as opposed to whole units for the retribution)

So I retract my previous statement, the retribution banner is probably more efficient for the same cost.

The powerfield generator provides a 3" bubble that provides a 4++ to models.

I do not remember reading the Retibution banner gives +1 A to the unit with the banner i.e. Command Squad. Or do you mean the model carrying the banner? Even that I do not remember.

How many points more or less is the DW Banner than the Retribution banner?

I apologize, I mixed it up with the chapter banner...
Retribution is just for counter attack. It is the same cost as the DW banner.

So DW Banner instead of Retribution banner; an even swap for 6 inches of +1A instead of 12 inches of counter-attack? I can dig it.

Who is able to take the power field generator? Only the libbi out of my list, correct? Or is that something the Command Squad can take? I do not currently have any points for it and will probably have to drop a TH/SS upgrade for it.

Only the libby yes.

Belial

Level 2 Terminator Librarian

DW Command
- DW Co. Standard
- Champ w/ Halberd
- Assault Cannon
- 1x TH/SS

Rifleman Dread
Rifleman Dread
5x DW Knights

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Assault Cannon
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Assault Cannon
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Cyclone Missile Launcher
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

4x Ravenwing [Bike Squad]
- 3x bikes
- 1x Plasma Gun
- 1x MM Attack Bike

2000

I have been reading a lot about the power field generator which the Libbi can carry. It is a pricey upgrade for a 3 inch bubble. However, it would go toward buffing the dreads. The only way I can even start to make room for it though is by dropping the terminator armor off the librarian. So the question is which is better for the list: Lvl 2 Terminator Librarian or Lvl 2 PA Librabian with power field generator?

Should I drop the DW Command Squad altogether and just copy/paste another DWT unit? What I lose in fun toys I will gain in another scoring unit that is a few points cheaper.

So I have nearly all the models I need to build the 2000pt list. Until then I have put together a 1750 pt list and 1850 WIP

1750

Belial

Librarian
- Level 2
- Terminator Armor
- Force Field Generator

Rifleman Dread
Rifleman Dread

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Assault Cannon
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Assault Cannon
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Assault Cannon
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

5x DW Terminator Squad
- Cyclone Missile Launcher
- Chainfist
- TH/SS

4x Ravenwing [Bike Squad]
- 3x bikes
- 1x Plasma Gun
- 1x MM Attack Bike
------------------------
1745


With the 105 points to bring this list to 1850 - Add a small unit of Greenies with Flakk ML and Veteran Serg.

Looking at your list I see too few scoring units for the size. I would make either the command squad or knights a normal squad, I would personally choose the command squad to ditch. Use the saved points to squeeze in more bodies/gear to make your bikes for dependable.

I like the Knights as a unit that can really cause your opponent to react to when it threatens them. The forth scoring into and better armed bikes make the list more flexible for most missions.