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I have some experience with ambush alleys rule set however I have been unable to get my hands on the TW ruleset yet. I was wondering how the rule set diverges from the modern system, or if I am better of making a homebrew rule set using the rules I already own?

Max

Its quite a bit different.

It introduces tech levels and various weapon effects plus robots and all manner of 'chrome'.

You could convert TW back to moderns, but going the other way would be hard work.

But Im biased... I worked on Tomorrows War!

You can get it here:

http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/138187

Yes, the usual Ambush Alley "engine" does drive this ruleset but as Big P noted there are a lot of bells of whistles added. If you have any desire to homebrew rules, TW is a great basis for that. It provides the tools (with great examples) that you can use to build whatever kind of near-future scifi units or scenarios that you want.

I love TW. The book itself is clearly written and has excellent production values -- full color, lots of illustration, hardcover.

And unlike Big P, I didn't work on it so this is just my opinion as a customer.

I would say it depends on how much Sci-Fi chrome you want to add to your game.

If you just want a modern game with a few additions/upgrades, then you probably don't need TW. However, if you want to get into Sci-Fi gear with with Power Armor, Robotic units, etc, etc, then I'd definitely recommend TW.

I eagerly purchased TW when it was released. I liked what I'd seen of the AA system, and TW was all that I wanted it to be - and more.

When the new book, By Dagger or Talon is released, it will be even better. Shoehorning aliens and powered armour specfor into the games will be so much easier.

Yes, it is my replacement for 40k. It is infinitely more satisfying, too.

My initial plans were to play district 13 or modern starship troopers style games.

So essentially modern games with a Sci Fi twist. Would it be better to modify the modern rules with patches pulled from tomorrow war for the "prawn"?

Well, the "prawns" already exist for TW - the GZG crusties.

At least in 15mm.

When the new book is out, I'd expect to see them done up as an actual racial profile thing, though.

I knew there was a new AmbushZ on the way, but I did not know about a new Tomorrows War.

It's called "By dagger or claw" or "by dagger and claw" and is aliens and special forces powered armour units primarily.

So not-spasemareenz, obviously.

There is some chatter on the AA forums about it. It has been sent to the publishers (NOT Osprey this time) and should be out before gencon.

 chromedog wrote:
It has been sent to the publishers (NOT Osprey this time)

?que? Chromedog, do you know why they didn't go with Osprey for this one?

[edit: Apologies for the delay in posting this - I scratched my cornea and it made using a keyboard to be somewhat problematic when you can't see the letters. ]

Not sure.
Cost, I think. AA are now doing the printing themselves, so all of their new stuff is 8.5x11.

They wanted TW in 8.5x11 (US letter format), but Osprey wanted their "standard" size print.

When AA get around to (if they need to) reprint TW, it will also be in 8.5x11 - but they can't whilst Osprey still have stock (publishing agreement of some kind).

That said: Contents of the new book. Copied from the AA forums and originally posted by Shawn Carpenter

ONTENTS
Introduction
A Short History of the Post-Contact Period
Timeline for the Opening of Human Space
First Encounters on Glory
The Darghaur Incursion
Puppets Pulling the Strings
The First Darghaur War
The Initial Defense
The War for Glory
Breaking the Stranglehold
No Surrender
The Aftermath

Xenobiology
Conceptualizing an Alien Race
The Human Advantage
Alien Archetypes
Anthromorphic Aliens – Here Kitty, Kitty, Kitty!
Human Variants: We Have Met the Enemy, and They Are US
Humanoid Aliens – Why Reinvent the Wheel?
Intangible Aliens – These Guys are a Gas!
Man-Eating Monsters – Can You Blame Them? We Taste Like Pork!
Robots & Mechanical Menaces – First Law, Schmirst Law!
Utterly Alien Life-Forms – That Polyp Just Ate Jones!

Example of Alien Design
GZG Alien Mercenaries (The Urraug & Virraug)

Enhanced Special Operations Forces (ESOF)
Conceptualizing Enhanced Special Operations Forces
ESOF Archetypes
Paragons
Powered Armored SOF
Basic Advantages of Powered Armor
Powered Armor and Infantry Weapons
Types of Powered Armor
Early Powered Armor (TL 1)
Standard Powered Armor (TL 2)
Recon Powered Armor (TL 2)
Advanced Powered Armor (TL 3)
Powered Armor Summary
Nannies (Nanite Augmentation)
Genies (Genetically Engineered)
Cyborgs
Synthetics
Telepresence Synthetics (T-Synths)
Autonomous Synthetics (A-Synths)
Hybrids

Example of ESOF Unit Design – Designing Detachment Zulu

Xeno/Augmented Attributes
Active Trauma Treatment (Powered Armor)
Active Trauma Treatment Nanites
Adapted to Hostile Environment
Advanced Life Saving Capabilities
Advanced Sensors
Animosity
Berserkers (Involuntary)
Berserkers (Voluntary)
Bloody Minded
Borged Up
Burst Movement
Cannibal
Close Assault Monsters
Cavemen CASEVAC
Damage Projectors
Despised
Dominator
Dreadful
Elusive
Fearless
Group Entity
Hard to Kill
Big Guns and Hard to Kill Units
Heightened Senses
Heightened Situational Awareness/Reflexes
Hive Mind
Human Spirit
Hungry
Inspiring
Intangible
Intimidating
Jump Troops
Killer Instinct
Natural or Augmented Armor
Natural or Augmented Weapons
Old School
Pain Resistant
Pointman
Poor Initiative
Psionic
Psionic Levels
Psionic Attacks
Psionic Effects
Psionic Level 1 Effects
Psionic Level 2 Effects
Psionic Level 3 Effects
attles of Will
Psionic Duels
Psionic Resistance
Pyrrhic Attacks
Remote Controlled
Savant (US Army Only)
Shared Senses
Skeletal Augmentation
Stealthy
Small Target
Subject to Shrinkage
Super Soldier
Teleportation (Strategic)
Teleportation (Tactical)
Tyrant
Unpredictable
Very Large
Vulnerability

Sample Forces

Alien Forces in the Incursion at Glory
The Darghaur
The Darghaur in Game Terms
Darghaur Specialists
Typical Darghaur Troop Ratings
Darghaur Unit Organizations
Darghaur "War Paint"
Typical Darghaur Weapons

Darghaur Slave Races
Slave Soldier Revolt Checks
A Sample Slave Race: The Urraug (& Virraug)
Urraug/Virraug Weaponry
The Marshborn Confederacy
Blood Claws
Dust Brothers
Typical Dust Brother Clan House Ratings
Marshborn Weaponry
Human Special Operations Forces in the Incursion at Glory

DPRG Forces
DPRG Victorious People's Guard (Powered Armored SOF)
DPRG Special Reconnaissance Platoon (Cyborg Special Operations)
DPRG Weapons

French Forces
1er Régiment de Forces Spéciales Améliorées (Les Marteaux de Dieu)

FFL Weaponry

Republic of Arden
Republic of Arden National Guard Special Operations Force (RANGSOF)
RANGSOF Weaponry
US Forces Detachment Zulu (Genies)
ypical Detachment Zulu Unit Ratings
US Army Special Operational Detachments (Paragons)
Typical US Army Special Forces Ratings

US SOF Weaponry
USMC Force Special Operations Command (Nannies)
Typical Marine Force Special Operations (FSOC) Ratings
USMC Weaponry

US Weaponry
Vehicle Descriptions
Weapon Locker

Scenarios
Operation Vortex
Battle for the Joy of Light
Zero Palms
Devil Take the Hindmost
Lake of Blood
Taking the Taken
The Glorious Victory at the People's Triumphal Redoubt #31
Each Step Sold with Blood
Operations Thunderbolt and Lightning
Thunderbolt
Lightning

Miniatures Guide

PDF copies will not include background art that obscures the text, so it makes for easier printing. Dead tree editions will have them.
Exact page count to be determined.

Oh man, I am all over that. The ESOF stuff is right up my alley, I have an idea for a DPRC spec-ops unit that is ideal for those rules. Man, I need to wrangle my group and actually play some TW games one of these days. I loved it when I picked it up but only got a couple of games in.

I may have to buy this simply for the 'miniatures guide' section.

My "Imperial enforcers of doctrinal policy" will get dragged out of the shed of shame for this. Whilst I did have a few games of PA troops (QD10) v hapless cannon fodder rebel troops (QD8) using my GW stuff, the games still felt one-sided - even when the "good guys" outnumbered them 3-1.

This should help reignite the other game interest in my area, and show the other ex-40k players who still have their stuff that they do have a life outside of GW.

Oh I love TW.

It's a highly modifiable system, the developers even say in the beginning that if you don't like a rule just change it or not use it at all. This was a fresh change for me compared to GW (with 40k) and other more strict games.

Because of that and the tech levels being scaling, you could easily use it for any era of sci-fi (even Moderns if you want).

Hmm, for that matter, I had some ideas for a CANSOFCOM TO&E that would be well served by special forces rules. I could get a proper future JTF2 commando group going! Hmm, still sitting on some tax return money. If the Mantic Deadzone KS doesn't excite me then I think I have a few new 15mm purchases in mind.

 washout77 wrote:
Oh I love TW.

It's a highly modifiable system, the developers even say in the beginning that if you don't like a rule just change it or not use it at all. This was a fresh change for me compared to GW (with 40k) and other more strict games.

Because of that and the tech levels being scaling, you could easily use it for any era of sci-fi (even Moderns if you want).

I also like it - I also played Stargrunt, back in the day, and the Quality die type mechanism is very reminiscent of this game.

I've been keeping up with chatter on the AA forums (where I post under the same username).

Yeah, for me, the love of TW came mostly from my love of SGII. The emphasis on training and morale are exactly what I look for out of my gritty <modern theatre of operation> IN SPAAAAACE games. I have always loved scenario-based sci-fi war games that have rules that feel like something from historicals or modern war games. They just have this different texture compared to most other fantasy and sci-fi games.

I think for me what it is is that instead of trying to model a setting within their rules, they are trying to model a style of warfare based on a modern understanding of the dynamics of war. Where 40k is trying to model the 40k universe, all chainsaw swords and rocket-guns; a place where a man can charge an entrenched position without covering fire and stand an even chance of succeeding. Games like Tomorrow's War and SGII tried to model the kind of operations we see in modern wars (along with modelling how training and morale were the real important attributes on the field), but extrapolated decades or even a century in to the future. So they end up having this very unique feel that I crave every once and a while. So to me, TW is kind of a spiritual successor of Stargrunt II.

If I weren't in the middle of running an RPG for my group I think I would have to dig TW out and get a scenario or two going. Hmm... maybe I can kill the party off this weekend and speed the process along.

Q: what is happening with the kick starter for - neo british commonwealth 15mm troopers by Keith armstrong from dec 2012?

I know I will look for the new book. I enjoy this game too.

What is everyone using 20mm or 15mm,
15mm has the best selection of Sci-Fi choices.
But I have so much 1/72 stuff?

We're heavily invested in the scale, so we're using 28mm. On a standard wargaming table it works well for platoon size engagements. One of our recent games.
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2013/10/tomorrows-war-block-by-block-in-geirrod.html
It was pretty cool to see 25 year old Denizen Ventauran sculpts facing off against fairly recent Pig Iron Figures.

If you have 1/72, than just do 20mm, though 15mm stuff looks all right next to 1/72 scenery.

Nice scenery, I spotted the rust forge shipping container I think it adds to the near future look.

Sorry for chiming in so late!

I ended up not doing crusties vs the UN and took another route entirely. I fell into a large box of Mechwarrior Darkage Minis and am in the process of rebasing them. I also picked up a Dropzone commander Terrain set (the cardboard tiles and buildings). Man do these look great together, and its a very light setup for transportation.

Now I am back to figuring out how to get a rule system put together for these guys. How can tomorrows war be implimented for a infantry/tank/mechawarrior universe? I have 25 dollars in the paypal account, and my mouse pointer is hovering over the buy now button!

 Twoshoesvans wrote:
Sorry for chiming in so late!

I ended up not doing crusties vs the UN and took another route entirely. I fell into a large box of Mechwarrior Darkage Minis and am in the process of rebasing them. I also picked up a Dropzone commander Terrain set (the cardboard tiles and buildings). Man do these look great together, and its a very light setup for transportation.

Now I am back to figuring out how to get a rule system put together for these guys. How can tomorrows war be implimented for a infantry/tank/mechawarrior universe? I have 25 dollars in the paypal account, and my mouse pointer is hovering over the buy now button!

For Tomorrow's war you're either going to have to cut the infantry apart and base each one separately (Proxie models makes some very nice very small circles for this) or find a different way to track the casualties on each base. Tomorrow's war is written for individually based infantry.

In truth though, I think that Mechwarrior Dark Age minis and their 10mm (aka "N" or 1/160) scale are not ideal for Tomorrow's War. I say this as someone who (and whose club) has rebased hundreds of Mechwarrior minis for use in small scale wargaming. We have found that they are much better suited for rulesets written for smaller scales such as Panzer 8 Sci-fi (Free fast play Beer'N'Pretzels), Alpha Strike (streamlined Battletech/Battleforce rules for mass battle play), Mech Attack (Battletech style and size of battles but very streamlined mechanics), or Future War Commander (A more traditional style of wargame with similarities to Warmaster). They would also work well for Gruntz, and I hope to try that game some time in 10mm or 28mm, though again, you need to rebase or track casualties differently.

Not that it couldn't work, but there are better rulessets out there for small scale figures

How fiddly of a ruleset it Tomorrow's War? I've read elsewhere that there is a lot of tracking of various effects and that the game gets bogged down a bit in the nitty gritty. I'd love to hear the opinions of those that have played recently of their view of the game. How does it scale for 28mm models?

The actual play of Tomorrow's war moves along quite well. It doesn't bog down in the minutae, because the actual mechanics and statlines are much less complicated. However for me the challenge was twofold:
1) The book is beautifully produced and terribly laid out. I found it hard to grasp the rules by reading, and had to rely on my gaming buddies to explain it.
2) Getting one's head around a reaction based system when they've played more traditional (IGOUGO and Alternating Activation) system takes some getting used to.

Once that's out of the way it's a pretty smooth moving system. It's written with 28 and 15mm scales in mind. You can read about our club's experiences with it at the blog in my sig.

 pongo50 wrote:
Q: what is happening with the kick starter for - neo british commonwealth 15mm troopers by Keith armstrong from dec 2012?

Those shipped in May and have been available at retail for some time
http://www.blackhat.co.uk/online_shop/index.php?cPath=22_192_198_204&osCsid=46e74e9cee06879288061fbbd6ad6c83

I think the casuatly system gets a bit fiddly and I frequently streamline it to just dead/not dead.

I have the book but it's not really my style of game.

I think it's required reading for anyone thinking of developing their own sci-fi game, though. The discussion of the future evolution of warfare and how it could be dealt with in game terms is just brilliant.