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Ok, having read the new codex, I am pretty certain that Broadsides (Shas'ui and Shas'vre), can not only take the Stabilisation system , but they can also purchase a Drone Controller and drones (non hard wired).

At the end of the Stabilisation descripition, it clearly states that the unit may still take drones. The ONLY unit that can benefit from this system is a Broadside team, and since drone controllers are free now, you can load up on your choice of up to 2 drones (mind you, you can now mix and match your drones!)

So,now I have a team of 3 Broadsides:

1 Shas'vre: twin Plasma, stabilisation system, drone controller+ 2 shield drones and a hardwired Target Lock.

2 Shas'ui: SMS, stabilisation system, drone controller+ 2 shield drones.

 

I see no other possible interpretation of this, besides being allowed to also take a  non hard wireddrone controller. Seriously, think about it, if you upgrade to a Ldr or 'vre, you ONLY have access to Battlesuit Wargear (which is mostly hard wired gear). Why else would the Stabilisation system say that the unit can still take drones, if the stabilisation system is also on the outside of the Suit? That would be saying that once you picked this support system, you no longer have any more options. But you do, you have one left, that would be drones.

The ONLY unit that can benefit from this system is a Broadside team, and since drone controllers are free now, you can load up on your choice of up to 2 drones

I see nothing that limits the Stabilisation to Broadsides... nor can I see anything that lets you ignore the 1 System allotment for Broadsides.

And while the Controller may be free, the Drones are still Wargear. Only the Team Leader has access to Wargear.

You know what, that makes sense. So, would the drone controller be on the suit or hardwired?

Keep in mind, aside from a Markerlight for a Stealth Leader, there is clearly no use for this on a Crisis Suit.

So, would the drone controller be on the suit or hardwired?

On a Broadside, it would have to be Hardwired. It says that the unit can still have Drones... it doesn't say they can ignore the usual number of Systems allowed.

Keep in mind, aside from a Markerlight for a Stealth Leader, there is clearly no use for this on a Crisis Suit.

Since there is no way to mount Heavy weapons on Crisis suits, yeah, you'd be right.

The drone controller would have to be hardwired if you want stabilization and drones, it says right in the discription of the broadside "must choose one battlesuit support system"

Going to be interesting to see how broadsides are going to be used. Do you take the mutli-tracker or target lock or drones or stabilization system or shield generator?


-Hans

So let me get this straight, the only friggin model that can now take drones are IC's/team leaders and Shas'vre???? So now my twin burst cannon+ 2 gun drone Shas'ui suits are illegal now......

Posted by insaniak on 03/26/2006 4:31 PM

Keep in mind, aside from a Markerlight for a Stealth Leader, there is clearly no use for this on a Crisis Suit.

Since there is no way to mount Heavy weapons on Crisis suits, yeah, you'd be right.

A plasma rifle-armed Crisis Suit could make use of the Advanced Stabilisation System.

How so? They already do not count as moving when firing Rapid Fire weapons. Explain to me how a Crisis Suit can use the stabilisation system when it does not have access to a) markerlights b) railguns c) SMS. This new book is really messing me up.

It's not that different than before really, you can take one support sytem on a broadside, you just have more choices now. If you want drones, take a drone controller as a support system. If you want stabilization, take that instead.

But, on a broadside, you can't take a drone controller AND stabilization system unless the drone controller is hardwired. K

-Hans

Posted by byteboy on 03/26/2006 5:47 PM
How so? They already do not count as moving when firing Rapid Fire weapons

Uh, hello? What can't you do if you fire a rapid fire weapon? Not that a Crisis Suit wants to do that anyway.

Ok, so can non leaders take a drone controller and drones, even though the drones are listed in the wargear section, and the controller is in the battle suit support section? I see no points for drones in the support system, only in the wargear section. This tells me that regualat Suits can no longer take drones, since they do not have access to the wargear list.

So let me get this straight, the only friggin model that can now take drones are IC's/team leaders and Shas'vre????

In a Broadside Team, Shas'ui can only take a single Support System. The Team Leader has access to Wargear.

In a Crisis Team, everyone has access to Weapons and Support Systems. The Team Leader has access to Wargear.


So in a Broadside Team, only the Leader can have Drones. In a Crisis Team, everyone can have Drones.

Ok, so can non leaders take a drone controller and drones, even though the drones are listed in the wargear section, and the controller is in the battle suit support section?

Taking the controller allows the model to choose Drones from the Wargear list.

Why can't crisis assault after firing a rapid fire weapon? I've never played it that way.

Posted By onlainari on 03/26/2006 5:00 PM
Why can't crisis assault after firing a rapid fire weapon? I've never played it that way.

Because moving doesn't have anything to do with not being able to assault after firing a rapid fire weapon.  If it did, then you'd still be able to assault if you were stationary in the Movement phase.  Without the Advanced Stabilisation System all you can do is decide to shoot twice to 12" or once to maximum range if you fire your plasma rifle.  It does not allow you to assault.

Well, I have a huge smudge around the Drone description (it came this way). I called up a buddy and he read to me the last sentence in it and it does say you take the drones from the Wargear list. Sooooo, all Suits can take drones, but only the Leaders can take hard wired controllers. Geez, I may want to return this copy.

But how does "slow and purposeful" on a crisis suit allow you to assault either? It just slows down movement and allows the firer to count as being stationary. You're still firing rapid fire weapons, which is what keeps you from assaulting. In fact, the advanced stabilization won't benefit a Broadside with plasma rifles either, as they get the same benefit with them as the XV-8's as standard.

Byte.... if the book is misprinted and a section is unreadable, I'd exchange it for a new one too. You are correct, ALL suits can get drones IF you choose a drone controller. All suits can take the regular one as a battlesuit system choice. Shas'Vre and above can take a hardwired controller.

Another option for the Advanced Stabilization I found while digging would be for Stealth units. They can now take a support system (each suit can take a different one as well.), and a leader can take a markerlight, which can benefit from S&P now as it fires like a heavy weapon.
-Hans

You're still firing rapid fire weapons, which is what keeps you from assaulting.

I think that Ghaz is arguing that the suit's rules only make it count as 'not moving' when firing RF weapons, which is not the same as counting as 'stationary' which is what is required in order to assault.

Crisis Suits count as 'not moving'
Slow and Purposeful counts as 'stationary'

Personally, that's close enough. But you'd probably have a case for RAW.

Or it's GW's 'logic' that a model can't be stationary and still assault, but a model that always counts as being stationary can.

Or it's GW's 'logic' that a model can't be stationary and still assault, but a model that always counts as being stationary can.

Unless there's something I'm missing, that only applies to Heavy Weapons:
"An infantry unit that fired twice with pistols or which shot with rapid fire weapons or remained stationary to fire heavy weapons may not charge at all in the Assault phase.

A Unit that counts as stationary can fire RF weapons and assault. So long as you assume that 'count as stationary' and 'count as not moving' are the same thing, where's the problem?

A unit that IS stationary and uses a rapid fire weapon may not assault.

A unit that COUNTS AS stationary and uses a rapid fire weapon may assault.

So we have a unit that can assault because it counts as being stationary while a unit that is stationary can not assault. Sorry, but what kind of twisted logic is that?

I have absolutely no idea what you are getting at.

A Battlesuit counts as stationary (or more precisely, counts as not moving, which in my book is the same thing) ...so why can't it charge after firing?

If you 'count as' something, it is basically the same as being that something. Thus a model that 'counts as' being stationary should have all of the benefits and drawbacks of being stationary as it is basically the same thing as being stationary in the first place. It should be no better or worse. Yet in GW's 'logic', 'counting as' being stationary has a bonus over actually being stationary. If you 'count as' being stationary you can rapid fire and still assault, while a model that is stationary can not.

So since when was 'counting as' something actually better than being the thing you 'count as'?

I'm not disputing the screwy logic... I'm just trying to find out what it has to do with Crisis Suits...

Nothing. This is just one of my pet peeves.

It has to do with crisis suits because of the Advanced Stabilization system. If a crisis suit is using one, and is thus using Slow and Purposeful, it counts as being stationary. Therefore it can now fire rapid fire and assault, though it looses the bonus +1 attack in close combat for charging.

I can see a bit of a justification fluffwise for the difference. A model that is stationary has their feet planted solid and is only firing. A unit that counts as stationary is also moving and carrying forward momentum, they are just able to support the weapon enough while they do so to negate the drawback. They can speed up enough to get into a charge as they are already moving somewhat, where a unit that has to go from a dead stop just can't change their posture fast enough to do so.

In this case, if you go with the interpretation that a crisis suit can't shoot and assault normally, then this is a potential upgrade for a crisis suit. But that is a whole different YMDC topic I think.

-Hans

The general rules for jet packs give the jetpack "They are also allowed to declare a charge after firing rapid fire weapons" . So they did not include it in the tau codex because it was already there in the general rule.

Pg 36 of the main book says, "Note: Some rare units always count as stationary when firing rapid fire weapons and some units can move and fire heavy weapons. Such units can always charge after firing."

There are several places where GW says you can never ever do something, then another rule provides an exception. The jet pack exception from scramasax post is on pg 55. It also basically counts jet packs as being stationary, since it also lets them fire once to maximum range with rapid fire weapons.