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Csm:

Hq
Daemon prince wings, black mace, armor tzeentch
Daemon prince khorne, axe if blind fury, wings, armor

20 cultists
15 cultists

Fast attack
Heldrake
Heldrake

Daemons:

Hq
Lord of change, mastery 3, exalted reward

Troops:
10 plague bearers

Heavy support:
Daemon prince tzeentch, mastery level 3, greater, greater, lesser

I would remove Mastery Levels from the tzeentch Daemon Prince and give them to the one with the Black Mace. Biomancy can REALLY hurt on that model...

Interesting suggestion. What ate peoples overall thoughts on the list? I think it could win a tourney

This last has a massive pro and a massive con:

Firebreathing stompy death dealing monsters barrelling towards your opponent!

but only three (weak) troop choices...

Basically what Im saying is, this is a massively unbalanced list. Someone is getting tabled! Could be your opponent if he's unprepared, but if he has the tools then you are screwed.

Tournament winning? Very matchup dependent. I could see this taking an RTT no problem, but in a GT you have higher odds of facing a list that could wreck you. Overall, it is still pretty darn good.

I'm not a Daemon player but my close friend who has won tournaments here does and I've noticed that the Lord of Change is pretty good but I find Fateweaver a good choice too.

With him you get to re-roll any 1 dice per turn and in the rule book it says that unless otherwise stated a turn means player turn.
In the rule book a player turn is stated as your go consisting of a movement, shooting and assult phase and then your opponent gets their player turn so you can re-roll 1 dice on your go(Roll of a 1 with the black mace or reserve roll) and one dice in your opponents go(that crucial saving throw!).

He can also re-roll the winds of chaos result which could make or break your tournament!

Half the reason you take fateweaver is to reroll the warp storm but since you don't use the warp storm when taking Daemons as allies then he is not worth it, stick with the LOC.

It's a solid list, assuming your exalted reward is for the portal glyph for extra troops, I would drop the cultists down to min size to free up points for the ML 3 on the Mace prince, you want the biomancy rolls for sure on him. I would also keep the LOC at ML 2 and use those points for a greater reward (potentially adds more survivability since he cannot roll on biomancy at all)

Keep your troops out of harms way (deep strike in plaguebearers, hide in cover and go to ground etc) plus your portal and you should be ok for objectives (not great but ok). Just make sure your big nasties wipe out your opponents troops.

My bad but Fatey is still a dirty psyker and that re-roll is usually used to change the outcome quite dramatically but as I said I'm no Daemon player....

Other thoughts,?

I wouldn't take an axe of blind fury on a daemon prince from Codex spacemarines. you don't need the ap to as you are a MC, WS 8 means all WS 4 models are hitting you on 4's and you don't want that because of your relatively poor save.

Wat are you going to take for your exalted? grimore or portoglyph? both have merit.

I'd also got with Daemons as primary and Choas as ally so you could fit more princes in and get better tropp choices for similar price.

I agree with the previous comment : axe of blind fury is waste and on DP since both gives the AP2. A khorne lord on steed with chaos born can be even better I think.

Plus like the daemon are not your main army, I'm not sure you can unlock the DP as heavy support.

I take the axe for the daemon weapon. Getting d6 extra attacks it's like warp speed on crack. Also, the daemon codex says if your army includes a lord of change then a dp can be heavy. It doesn't say it has to be a primary detachment like the chaos space marine book does so the list is legal.

Like I said before, I take the aobf to give d6 more attacks. The juggerlord would be a poor choice for this list because everything else is flying so he would get focused down very quickly. My other option would be to take a nurgle dp and give it mastery levels and the burning brand of skalathrax and have it prance about flaming things. Honestly I like the khorne dp better with the axe though.

Black Mace is also a daemon weapon, granting +d6 attacks & works with any Mark. (unlike Axe)

Prince is Monstrous, making it AP2, and it has Fleshbane & Cursed. Cursed forces Toughness tests....

Pretty awesome if you ask me....

You can only take one artefact each and if you look at my list you'll notice there's already a black mace in the army on the tzeentch dp

Ok my bad.The restriction about the HQ of the main army is in the CSM codex not the deamon.

Your list is pretty tought but your main weakness is your lack of troops. You should consider remove one greater reward from your DP and split your troops in 4 :
10 cultists
10 cultists
10 Plague bearer
10 Plague bearer

Not very brutal. Any smart opponent will take out your very weak troops then you cant win majority of the missions. Have fun flying around.

Proxy this right now and play test this against last month winners. Consider fighting tau wave serpant spam, tau riptide spam, da ravenwing spam. Play test this right now because if it can crush 80% of other armies then it is ready.

I'm not very worried about troops. They stay in reserve and I try to fail at least turn two so they won't be in the game until turn 3. Also, if they're shooting troops then they're not shooting the DPS and that means they're just romping about slaughtering. IT's not meant to be a balanced list, but it def doesn't need to score any objectives to win. 3 Daemon princes, a Lord of Change and two heldrakes. What makes people think they'll have scoring units left at the end of the game? Also, the plague bearers are pretty saucy with 2+ cover saves in area terrain when they go to ground, and 2+ cover just being in ruins.

Hum i won't be so sure if I were you. To get a control on your reserves, you only got the divination power ( roll 6 -> ML3 got 40% toget it ) otherwise nothing. on average you'll get an heldrake and a troop coming on turn 2. ( and think about no heldrakes and 2 troops coming)
Adding to the fact that you need to put one troop on the field turn 1 ( at least half of your army ), A wise player can save one long range shooters to kill you one troop each turn. ( like those tau missile which ignore cover saves) and the rest of his army will aim to make you try a crash test.

I guess your main goal is kill all enemy units no matter the scenario but it's a risky bet. To make it more reliable, you should think about a way to handle better your reserve rolls ( like a comrelay) or enforce your units ( like add biomancy on CSM DP for example ) or try to grab some points from objectives ( by getting more troops but smaller for example)

 jifel wrote:
This last has a massive pro and a massive con:

Firebreathing stompy death dealing monsters barrelling towards your opponent!

but only three (weak) troop choices...

Basically what Im saying is, this is a massively unbalanced list. Someone is getting tabled! Could be your opponent if he's unprepared, but if he has the tools then you are screwed.

Tournament winning? Very matchup dependent. I could see this taking an RTT no problem, but in a GT you have higher odds of facing a list that could wreck you. Overall, it is still pretty darn good.

+1 to everything said here.

I don't really see any value the CSM daemon princes bring. Yea, the mace and the axe are nice, but I would rather have greater rewards any day of the week.

Consider an Aegis line with a Comms relay, and throw the Aegis line down in your deployment zone.

You can use the Comms relay to re-roll successful reserve rolls for your troops trying to keep them from entering the table, and when they come in they can hide behind it. Not a bad deal.

CSM should only bring 1 DP, 265pts. Tzeentch, armor, wings, blackmace.

I'd bring Fateweaver. Rerolling a failed Grimoire roll on your turn, and a failed grounding test on your opponents turn is freaking super clutch.

Played this list against tau yesterday. Absolutely destroyed them. Troops never get shot at because dp get a lot of attention. Portal glyph just keeps making more. Lord if change owned with shooting and assaults, and dps romped about while heldrakes baked everything. Tabled tau by turn 4

not a lot of armies can deal with a list like this one. You need lots of high str firepower or lots of str 10/insta death. Taudar, pure elder or grey knights are probably your biggest threats.

you're troops are really lacking, and a good player is probably going to ignore your army and go for them. Doesn't matter how much he looses if you don't have any troops left. And you don't necessarily need high strength firepower to take done only a few MC's. Just ground one and watch small arms fire go to town. I'd add venom spam to armies that would cause trouble, and probably more balanced daemon lists as they can just swarm your troops, and rely on rending slaanesh things to eat up MC's.

While I personally think the Daemons with Chaos marines allies is a stronger list, even with this one you can't ignore the nasties and just shoot at troops. Remember he can take a portalglyph and have a 50% chance to create another troops squad per turn.

While cultists are vulnerable to shooting plaguebears not so much. If you want to shoot at a unit with 2++ gone to ground in cover instead of DP's your in trouble (unless you have ignore cover shooting).

That being said I strongly agree with the previous post that Chaos Daemons DP > Chaos marines DP due to the greater rewards, even with a black mace but this army will still destroy the majority of armies out there.