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I heard that Magnus wasn't getting rules until the 4th book of the HH series of codex thingies. I'm not planning on waiting 2 years to see half the fanbase's favorite primarch.
This thread is to give Magnus rules and is a WIP. The statline itself is based on Fulgrim who is the base primarch with reductions to certain stats.
This is Pre-heresy and is meant to be used alongside a legion list in a friendly game of 40k.
Comments and criticism.
Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons
WS BS S T W I A LD SV Points
6 6 5 6 6 5 4 10 2+/ 5+ Invul 600-700
Unit type: Monstrous Creature
Unit composition: 1 Magnus the Red
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 6, Forbidden knowledge, Sire of the Thousand sons, Primarch, Hatred (Space Wolves, Death Guard),
Wargear: Golden Scarab armor, Staff of Magnus, Book of Magnus, The Giant's Hand

Psychic Mastery 6: Magnus is the second most powerful psyker in the galaxy, only the Emperor is more powerful than he. Magnus may use 6 powers per turn but may not use the same non damage dealing powers more than once per turn, and may not use the same damage dealing power more than twice in the same turn.

Forbidden Knowledge: Magnus has seemingly endless knowledge on the subjects of sorcery and psychic powers & is aware of nearly every use for his great power. Magnus has all the powers from 3 BRB disciplines chosen at the beginning of the game. Magnus has a 2+ deny the witch and ignores perils of the warp on a 2+. Magnus treats all BRB psychic powers
as requiring 1 warp charge.

Annihilation Maelstrom: This is a psychic power unique to Magnus with the following profile. Warp Charge cost 6, The Psyker casts at a mastery level reduced by 1 the following turn (Book of Magnus can't be used that turn for obvious reasons) LOS required, 6D6 S:6 AP:4 hits, 48 inch range.

Eye of Magnus: This is a psychic power unique to Magnus with the following profile: Warp charge cost 2, LOS required, Fleshbane & Armorbane, 60 inch beam, S:10 AP:1, no other shooting powers may be made by Magnus the turn he uses this power.

Blessing of the Sorceror King: This is a blessing psychic power unique to Magnus with the following profile: Warp charge cost 3, LOS required, Magnus may not target himself with this power, Two chosen units may reroll all their saves, have their WS, BS, S, & T increased by one, & have soulfire on all their weapons for one turn.

Sire of the Thousand Sons: Magnus is beloved by all those on Prospero and looked upon by Thousand Son marines as a father figure. All Thousand Son units within 24 inches of Magnus have ATSKNF, do not scatter when Deep Striked, & count as having their bolters MC.

Primarch: Magnus has EW, IWND, fearless, fear, IC, fleet, Adamantium Will, Master of the Legion.

Golden Scarab armor: A beautiful armor fitted for Magnus's massive frame with great works of art imbued into it. This provides Magnus a 2+ armor save and a 5+ Invul

Book of Magnus: This book serves as Magnus's journal and in it's massive bindings are seemingly endless descriptions of rituals, encantations, the warp, its deinzens, & sorcery. Magnus may use the Book of Magnus to up his Psychic Mastery to 8 for one turn twice per game. The book of Magnus can only be activated when Magnus is at full mastery level.

Staff of Magnus: An enourmous heqa staff carried by Magnus. It serves as a melee weapon with the following profile. S:+1, Rend.

The Giant's Hand: A massive bolt pistol that fires equally massive bolts with the following profile: S:6, Assault 3, AP:3, 36" range
Comments and criticism appreciated.

Why doesn't he roll on the brb psychic power like everyone else, nd mo critical why does he have eldar and tyranid powers. I can agree that he gets to choose his powers from the standard disciplins but at the moment it just looks like you have picked the best powers from the entire game and given them to him. iron arm, endurance and fortune together and enfeeble and paroxysm on enemy units means he will be pretty much invincible despite having only a 5+ invulnerable. Sire of the Thousand sons also needs to be toned down ATSKNF is very powerful in a 30k setting where it shouldn't exist for fluff reasons and stubborn and fearless are much less common. On top of this their bolters are MC and they get no deep strike scatter. Until the 1k sons get actuall rules I would propose that the sire of the thousnd sons would give al infantry squads the Brotherhood of psykers special rule with the ability to roll a power from one of the five disciplines. This would suit the sons much better. Rather then having him as a monstrous creeature just make him infantry like the rest of the primarchs and change his weapon to AP2. Don't take this as to negative though I'm a huge fan of the sons and happy that you have set out on the quest to give them rules for their beloved primarch.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
WS 5 BS 5

He's a PRIMARCH after all. WS7, BS6 at least.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Hatred (Space Wolves, Death Guard)

I Think PE would fit better - Magnus isn't really angry guy, and I bet he know his old rivals weal poins.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Psychic Mastery 6: Magnus is the second most powerful psyker in the galaxy, only the Emperor is more powerful than he. Magnus may use 6 powers per turn but may not use the same non damage dealing powers more than once per turn, and may not use the same damage dealing power more than twice in the same turn.

Problem is that MC can only fire two weapons/witchfire per turn.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Forbidden Knowledge: Magnus has seemingly endless knowledge on the subjects of sorcery and psychic powers & is aware of nearly every use for his great power. Magnus has the Living Lightning, Paraoxysm, Fortune, Doom, Iron Arm, Endurance, Eldritch Storm, Enfeeble, Protect & Jinx powers. Magnus has a 2+ deny the witch and ignores perils of the warp on a 2+. Magnus treats all psychic powers as requiring 1 warp charge.

Why the hell did he know Eldar and Tyranid Psy Powers? I think it would be better just to give him ALL powers from five regular disciplines (after all he's the one who FOUNDED them), and maybe Tzeenc/Change disciplines from CSM/Daemons
Treating all powers as WC1 is a bit overboard - he's ML7 after all, so he have a lot of warp charges to spend.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
All Thousand Son units within 24 inches of Magnus have ATSKNF

They are Fearless already.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Primarch: Magnus has EW, IWND, fearless, fear, IC, fleet, Adamantium Will, Master of the Legion.

Could MC be ICs? Also Adamanrium Will is redundant with his 2+ DTW.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Staff of Magnus: An enourmous heqa staff carried by Magnus. It serves as a melee weapon with the following profile. S:+1, Rend.

On all arts Magnus after his ascension wields huge barbed axe.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
The Giant's Hand: A massive bolt pistol that fires equally massive bolts with the following profile: S:6, Assault 3, AP:3, 36" range

Why should he need one when he have his mind bullets?

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Comments and criticism appreciated.

1) Add some rule that would allow him to shoot more powers per turn, like Ahriman's staff.
2) Magnus often shown with giant spectral wings behind his back. Maybe you can represent this as WC2 power that turns him into FMC for a turn
3) During the Siege of Fang Magnus' armour vanishes after he was exhausted by fighting loads and loads of space puppy heroes at once, because this armor was just a manifestation of his will, and largely decorative. I suggest adding some rule, that turns armour off after Magnus reach 2 or 1 wounds.
4) Maybe some psyker-killing gaze ability?

The critical question is if this is Magnus before Heresy, during Heresy or Long after heresy when he has been turned into a daemon prince?

giving the boltguns of thousand sons master crafted will slow the game down, a lot; each one can re-roll 1 dice, so you'll have to roll every boltgun separately if they're rapidfiring.

I'd go for:

contemptuous dismissal; if he passes a 'deny the witch', the power is redirected back at the psyker who cast it.

no time for ameteurs: if a friendly psyker fails to cast a power within 18" of him, the psyker is destroyed. this doesn't count deny the witch, just failed rolls. possibly spawned instead...

I'd let him choose freely which lore he wishes to use each turn, so there's some limitation, but he still knows everything. he's controlling fire one turn, minds another, e.t.c.

any psychic powers used in LOS of him, or on a unit in LOS of him, he gains knowledge of how to use that power. so he could get doom, guide etc but only if he's against eldar - also stops you having to buy all the other codexes.

I think we can ignore normal MC rules for ole Magnus & just follow the rules I set for his powers per turn.It's pretty likely that he'd have elder psychic powers, I don't know about tyranid ones though. So I'll remove paraoxysm when I get the chance. It also says in the opening 3 sentences this is pre heresy.
Note: You're right he should have higher WS, BS. I've upped each one by one.
"contemptuous dismissal; if he passes a 'deny the witch', the power is redirected back at the psyker who cast it."
That might be a little much. Otherwise it's cool if other people like it
"no time for ameteurs: if a friendly psyker fails to cast a power within 18" of him, the psyker is destroyed. this doesn't count deny the witch, just failed rolls. possibly spawned instead... "
Magnus isn't really a hateful or spiteful guy. It doesn't fit his character but its a good balancer.

i wouldn't say it's a little much, as the bulk of what's going to be directed at him will be very fast, very real physical projectiles which go bang. it kinda makes sense that if you try to go toe to toe with (what i'm gathering to be) the best living* psyker of all time at his own game will wind up with you being ridiculed to death at your pathetic attempts to use magic.

*living here excluding all those strapped into a chair and kept in a vegetative state whilst being worshiped by billions.

Yeah I guess we can add that, makes sense fluff wise.
He's Magnus the Red, the guy who makes himself the size of Warlord titans to beat up gargants barehanded, and who turns oceans to acid.
Him having the best psychic powers in the game is justified.

No its not justified. Sure, have a lot of powers, but don't just go nicking them from other armies, especially when they're not human! You could have him pick two lores from the rule book, and know everything from it. I'd be relatively fine with that, but this is just ridiculous. This guy will have a 2+ re-rollable at toughness of 7/9 is totally OP and would be no fun to play against. Here is a fun exercise, you think of a way to kill him apart from D Weapons (which would OWN him) then tell us. If you can't think of one for the same amount of points as he is, then he is OP as heck and you need to change him. Im looking forward to what you think will beat this guy.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
No its not justified. Sure, have a lot of powers, but don't just go nicking them from other armies, especially when they're not human! You could have him pick two lores from the rule book, and know everything from it. I'd be relatively fine with that, but this is just ridiculous. This guy will have a 2+ re-rollable at toughness of 7/9 is totally OP and would be no fun to play against. Here is a fun exercise, you think of a way to kill him apart from D Weapons (which would OWN him) then tell us. If you can't think of one for the same amount of points as he is, then he is OP as heck and you need to change him. Im looking forward to what you think will beat this guy.

Magnus is on a different plane of power than a Alpha+ pysker. He also had enough knowledge on the Eldar to open up an Eldar webway portal.(he did this when he teleported to the Emprah to warn him) This means he has knowledge of their language but most importantly for this aspect, how their powers work & how to execute them. Ahirman even knows how to use the webway. I don't know why there's so much trouble over him having eldar powers. All psychic powers simply require enough power and knowledge of how to use that power to execute them. These are things that Magnus is in no short supply of. He's come across Eldar before & is immensely knowledgable on the webway. You don't have to be elder to use their powers from a fluff view
He has 4 attacks in close combat at initiative 5, weapon skill 6 and no furious charge........send him up against a bloodthirster in CQC and see what happens. They have a 24 inch charge. There, 500 points less.

Your mixing your fluff. Magnus ripped apart the webway, not open it. That's why the emperors webway collapsed, because magnus didn't know enough about it and thought he could simply rip it apart to get his message through. I haven't seen any fluff stating he knows the language, which is all but impossible stated in the elder codex because it relates to elder myth and ideals. The same way that knowing the language doesn't mean you understand elder runes, its like saying I know English, therefore I must know quantum physics. Also the runes also point towards elder ideology so would be impossible for an outsider to learn. Ahirman doesn't know how to use the webway, he has barely scratched the surface. Yet i'd say he is learning, slowly, but he will never understand it, merely use it.

Your trying to cheery pick powers, it has been shown that's not what this edition is about. You can't just make it better by making stupid restrictions like iron arms D2 and such, because that's not what the power does. Why is it so hard for people to understand that custom units aren't meant to brake the mould, only give you more mould to play with (for people who like to play with mould...)

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Your mixing your fluff. Magnus ripped apart the webway, not open it. That's why the emperors webway collapsed, because magnus didn't know enough about it and thought he could simply rip it apart to get his message through. I haven't seen any fluff stating he knows the language, which is all but impossible stated in the elder codex because it relates to elder myth and ideals. The same way that knowing the language doesn't mean you understand elder runes, its like saying I know English, therefore I must know quantum physics. Also the runes also point towards elder ideology so would be impossible for an outsider to learn. Ahirman doesn't know how to use the webway, he has barely scratched the surface. Yet i'd say he is learning, slowly, but he will never understand it, merely use it.

Your trying to cheery pick powers, it has been shown that's not what this edition is about. You can't just make it better by making stupid restrictions like iron arms D2 and such, because that's not what the power does. Why is it so hard for people to understand that custom units aren't meant to brake the mould, only give you more mould to play with (for people who like to play with mould...)

The eldar powers are actually useful, and the vast majority of BRB powers simply aren't on the same plane.

Magnus is dozens upon dozens of times more powerful than any elder psyker, so what' stopping him from knowing their powers. He also has more knowledge on the subject of powers than any farseer, even if he is ignorant of the gods. And powers don't have individual runes if I'm mistaken there's only one rune that the elder seers use to focus their powers, And if they did Magnus has a continent wide library that has a vast quantity of Eldar stuff like Soulstones, Wraith constructs, he even drug the corpses of those phantom titans he killed to his ship. I'm fairly sure he would have the rune that every elder has to focus their powers on in his library. He probably has hundreds of those for every power and knows what they do by looking at them.

I'd be happy to take them away for human powers if you could namedrop some imperial or tzeentch powers that are comparable in power.
By the way, all the bloodthirster would have to do is jump to and from LOS blocking terrain, and then jump out at Magnus like the cool aid guy. Magnus might not be able to give the bloodthirster a single wound.
There isn't any thing Magnus by himself can do to stop that.The Magnus described here has terrible CQC ability.

It isn't just about how powerful it is to cherrypick powers from different books, it's also that if you're trying to make something in line with what might come out for him from Forgeworld, that's the wrong way to do it. I think the better way would be to pick three BRB charts at the beginning of the game, and he knows all powers from them. Each turn he can cast from two of the three tables he knows this game.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
It isn't just about how powerful it is to cherrypick powers from different books, it's also that if you're trying to make something in line with what might come out for him from Forgeworld, that's the wrong way to do it. I think the better way would be to pick three BRB charts at the beginning of the game, and he knows all powers from them. Each turn he can cast from two of the three tables he knows this game.

The Forgeworld rules will be the official rules though, and that doesn't change the fact that Magnus having Eldar powers is perfectly fine fluff wise.
The BRB powers all blow besides biomancy, Its hard for anyone to justify an 720 point BRB psyker who is taken down literally without a fight by other MC's, when all he can do that's useful is give himself an extra T & S, or give other enemy units a negative point of S & T. He would need to at least have other human powers besides the BRB ones to even be not a joke.The elder powers are necessary in making a psychic focused MC viable. Which pretty much summarizes Magnus.

That's not true at all. Divination, aka the best BRB tree, does Eldar powers much better than the current Runes of Fate powers. Telepathy also has its uses. Maybe try decreasing his points if you feel that this isn't worth 720, isn't the most expensive one currently 600? Or create new psychic powers specifically for him. Here's one off the top of my head:

Eye of Magnus (Warp Charge 2 or 3, Beam, 60 inches)
S10 AP1, possibly some sort of special rule affecting Void Shields, maybe armourbane
If this power is used, no other shooting attacks may be used this turn as Magnus focuses his psychic might into one powerful blast. This power may not be used two turns in a row.

Inspiration drawn from that time he eye-blasted a Phantom Titan (IIRC) to death in A Thousand Sons. Considering this would only see play in Apoc, not overpowered at all compared to other things you'd see.

EDIT: In fact, it's probably a little underpowered, which if you're expecting people to let you play with a homebrew unit, is usually a good thing.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
That's not true at all. Divination, aka the best BRB tree, does Eldar powers much better than the current Runes of Fate powers. Telepathy also has its uses. Maybe try decreasing his points if you feel that this isn't worth 720, isn't the most expensive one currently 600? Or create new psychic powers specifically for him. Here's one off the top of my head:

Eye of Magnus (Warp Charge 2 or 3, Beam, 60 inches)
S10 AP1, possibly some sort of special rule affecting Void Shields, maybe armourbane
If this power is used, no other shooting attacks may be used this turn as Magnus focuses his psychic might into one powerful blast. This power may not be used two turns in a row.

Inspiration drawn from that time he eye-blasted a Phantom Titan (IIRC) to death in A Thousand Sons. Considering this would only see play in Apoc, not overpowered at all compared to other things you'd see.

EDIT: In fact, it's probably a little underpowered, which if you're expecting people to let you play with a homebrew unit, is usually a good thing.

That's more than a little underpowered, & that's exactly what I decided on doing. & That's a non fluff accurate version of what I came up with basically. All of his power is a single S:10 AP:1 hit? hehehehe
Edit: Oh it's a 60 inch beam. Damn that's really powerful. Magnus is a Lord of War which means you can take him in a 3000+ point game.

Also, not all of his power, just all of his shooting. The best psychic powers are blessings anyway, followed by maledictions, which he would still be able to cast in the same turn. It's definitely not perfect and could do with some refining, but like I said, it came off the top of my head.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Im looking forward to what you think will beat this guy.

Giant swarm of poisoned hormagaunts under synapse? Uh wait, they cost three times LESS, so you can afford to loose two to his mind bullets while closing and charging

Anyway, if this was a rules for post-herersy Magnus, it would be fluffy and ballanced to ad rule like "Flecshless" or "Incorporeal", that prevents him from recieving T/S bonuses from biomancy powers, so no S/T 7-10 (when Hierophant is S10 T9)

Why is he an MC? He should be Unit Type: Infantry (Character) with the Primarch special rule, which encompasses various other rules like EW and such.

You have a template, use it logically, reasonably, and soundly.

His psychic aspect is a total mess. Don't let him take powers from other books, it makes no sense. Give him mastery level 4 and either pick one table to know all the powers from, or roll six powers in any combination on any BRB table. He can also treat all powers as WC 1.

He shouldn't cost more than Horus, who should be your upper benchmark. So tone him down significantly until he falls in the ~400pts range.

Granted, I'd personally just wait, because I don't think 99% of players could come remotely close to creating an objectively balanced Primarch.

 Blacksails wrote:
Why is he an MC? He should be Unit Type: Infantry (Character) with the Primarch special rule, which encompasses various other rules like EW and such.

You have a template, use it logically, reasonably, and soundly.

His psychic aspect is a total mess. Don't let him take powers from other books, it makes no sense. Give him mastery level 4 and either pick one table to know all the powers from, or roll six powers in any combination on any BRB table. He can also treat all powers as WC 1.

He shouldn't cost more than Horus, who should be your upper benchmark. So tone him down significantly until he falls in the ~400pts range.

Granted, I'd personally just wait, because I don't think 99% of players could come remotely close to creating an objectively balanced Primarch.

Magnus Is stronger than a non chaos god buffed horus. He can crush titans with his mind, turn oceans to acid, overload other alpha+ psyker like Lorgar without even being there, pull down battleships from space, etc.
He's stronger than a non buffed Horus. This is well known and also why no one before you has brought it up.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Magnus Is stronger than a non chaos god buffed horus. He can crush titans with his mind, turn oceans to acid, overload other alpha+ psyker like Lorgar without even being there, pull down battleships from space, etc.
He's stronger than a non buffed Horus. This is well known and also why no one before you has brought it up.

What you're forgetting is that the Heresy is full of myths and wild exaggeration after ten thousand years (something that has been explicitly stated by the authors). Taking everything literally is like trying to make a modern-era wargame in which the mythological version of Zeus comes down to smite the enemies of the Greek tank units.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
I heard that Magnus wasn't getting rules until the 4th book of the HH series of codex thingies. I'm not planning on waiting 2 years to see half the fanbase's favorite primarch.
This thread is to give Magnus rules and is a WIP. The statline itself is based on Fulgrim who is the base primarch with reductions to certain stats.
This is Pre-heresy and is meant to be used alongside a legion list in a friendly game of 40k.
Comments and criticism.
Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons
WS BS S T W I A LD SV Points
...6 6 5 6 6 5 4 10 2+/ 5+ Invul 600-700
Unit type: Monstrous Creature
Unit composition: 1 Magnus the Red
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 6, Forbidden knowledge, Sire of the Thousand sons, Primarch, Hatred (Space Wolves, Death Guard),
Wargear: Golden Scarab armor, Staff of Magnus, Book of Magnus, The Giant's Hand

Psychic Mastery 6: Magnus is the second most powerful psyker in the galaxy, only the Emperor is more powerful than he. Magnus may use 6 powers per turn but may not use the same non damage dealing powers more than once per turn, and may not use the same damage dealing power more than twice in the same turn.

Forbidden Knowledge: Magnus has seemingly endless knowledge on the subjects of sorcery and psychic powers & is aware of nearly every use for his great power. Magnus has all the powers from 3 BRB disciplines chosen at the beginning of the game. Magnus has a 2+ deny the witch and ignores perils of the warp on a 2+. Magnus treats all BRB psychic powers
as requiring 1 warp charge.

Annihilation Maelstrom: This is a psychic power unique to Magnus with the following profile. Warp Charge cost 6, The Psyker casts at a mastery level reduced by 1 the following turn (Book of Magnus can't be used that turn for obvious reasons) LOS required, 6D6 S:6 AP:4 hits, 48 inch range.

Eye of Magnus: This is a psychic power unique to Magnus with the following profile: Warp charge cost 2, LOS required, Fleshbane & Armorbane, 60 inch beam, S:10 AP:1, no other shooting powers may be made by Magnus the turn he uses this power.

Blessing of the Sorceror King: This is a blessing psychic power unique to Magnus with the following profile: Warp charge cost 3, LOS required, Magnus may not target himself with this power, Two chosen units may reroll all their saves, have their WS, BS, S, & T increased by one, & have soulfire on all their weapons for one turn.

Sire of the Thousand Sons: Magnus is beloved by all those on Prospero and looked upon by Thousand Son marines as a father figure. All Thousand Son units within 24 inches of Magnus have ATSKNF, do not scatter when Deep Striked, & count as having their bolters MC.

Primarch: Magnus has EW, IWND, fearless, fear, IC, fleet, Adamantium Will, Master of the Legion.

Golden Scarab armor: A beautiful armor fitted for Magnus's massive frame with great works of art imbued into it. This provides Magnus a 2+ armor save and a 5+ Invul

Book of Magnus: This book serves as Magnus's journal and in it's massive bindings are seemingly endless descriptions of rituals, encantations, the warp, its deinzens, & sorcery. Magnus may use the Book of Magnus to up his Psychic Mastery to 8 for one turn twice per game. The book of Magnus can only be activated when Magnus is at full mastery level.

Staff of Magnus: An enourmous heqa staff carried by Magnus. It serves as a melee weapon with the following profile. S:+1, Rend.

The Giant's Hand: A massive bolt pistol that fires equally massive bolts with the following profile: S:6, Assault 3, AP:3, 36" range
Comments and criticism appreciated.

Better than earlier. A couple things:
1) use the template for weapon profiles. Name, Range, Strength, AP, Type. Not Name, Strength, type, AP, Range. There are melee weapon profiles now so the Staff of Magnus profile needs to be written out.
2) Magnus should have at worst a 4+ invlun. Horus has a 3+, Fulgrim has a 3+ in CC (5+ outside), and Mortarion has a 4+. Maybe Magnus could have a power that increases his Invuln to 2/3+ for a turn?
3) Add in that he may use more than one Witchfire power per shooting phase. Currently he can only use one, which is pitiful for a psyker of his power.
4) He is not a Monstrous Creature. Every Primarch in the HH books by FW is Infantry. His weapon may be AP2, but he is not a monstrous creature.