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So, I'm brand new to the game, only 2 games in so far, but I'm having a ton of fun. I first started collecting Trollbloods, but I came across an awesome deal for Legion, and decided to pick them up. I have a problem though, in that I like to play lists that are unique, usually theme driven, and not necessarily ultra competitive. In fact, my list doesn't have to destroy all comers, but I don't want to get steamrolled either. The difficult part is finding a unique list in my local meta. As is, there's a ton of Legion players at my FLGS, but it doesn't seem as if any of them run Lylyth 2's tier. So far, reading over the available options, I find myself leaning towards this particular theme in that i suits my desired play style.Here's where you veterans come in, and hopefully help me out. .

What would you recommend for a 35 pt list, using the Ravens of War? I will, however, impose certain limitations.

1.) I hate having doubles of anything, which is obviously going to be an issue due to the unit constraints. I think that I have a good idea of what I want to bring troops-wise, but I need some help with warbeast selection. So, I'm willing to do doubles, triples, or quadruples for lesser warbeasts (which I believe that i'm limited to the Stinger in this case), but I would like to avoid the use of double Ravagores, Carniveans, etc. What would you recommend?

2.) Is the Stinger a viable option? The whole suicidal attack rule seems to be...well...not so cool.

3.) How would you round this out to 50pts?

I've never played Lyl2's theme force but it seems to be all about taking multiples -even breaking field allowance. Realistically you will be taking two strider units with two UAs and two-to-four deathstalkers. In 35 points you can fit in the tier requirements, a second UA, a naga, a bolt thrower, and a ravagore.

The stinger is viable, but does not lend itself to spam like the shredder. It has a rather good animus that sees too little play in my opinion. The stinger's attacks are not that great.

At 50 you have room for more deathstalkers and a battlegroup with more threat. The restrictions won't allow much else.

If you are going to have these limits on your list why bother with this or any tier list? The whole tier system is designed around taking multiples of stuff to gain benefits for limiting yourself. Doubles is a strength of the Lylyth2 list, multiple Ravagores, Deathstalkers, and Stryders is core to this list.

 ICleadpeople wrote:
If you are going to have these limits on your list why bother with this or any tier list? The whole tier system is designed around taking multiples of stuff to gain benefits for limiting yourself. Doubles is a strength of the Lylyth2 list, multiple Ravagores, Deathstalkers, and Stryders is core to this list.

I get that I'll need doubles for the actual troop selections...and I'm cool with that. I can kinda imagine them as being just one big unit. The beasts though...I do want some uniqueness. For example...i don't see to many nephilim being used in my meta...or the teraph for that matter. Are these units inefficient? Can I make them work? I want to...personally, i think they look great.

Also, I don't need a winning list...but I want a chance to win. Basically...if its a close game, then I'm going to have fun regardless of the outcome. My main opponent is going to be Cygnar if that helps

Lyl2 loves two ravagores even out of her theme force. They work very well with her. Two are not mandatory but they are good. Of all the non-shredder beasts ravagore and angelius get taken in multiples the most.

As for the nephelim, the bolt thrower is great. It has a gun that I'm not sure a light beast should be allowed to carry. The protector is okay since it brings shield guard. The soldier falls flat a bit but it is playable. The unreleased bloodseer looks interesting and seems to have some cool effects.

Werewalrus wrote:

 ICleadpeople wrote:
If you are going to have these limits on your list why bother with this or any tier list? The whole tier system is designed around taking multiples of stuff to gain benefits for limiting yourself. Doubles is a strength of the Lylyth2 list, multiple Ravagores, Deathstalkers, and Stryders is core to this list.

I get that I'll need doubles for the actual troop selections...and I'm cool with that. I can kinda imagine them as being just one big unit. The beasts though...I do want some uniqueness. For example...i don't see to many nephilim being used in my meta...or the teraph for that matter. Are these units inefficient? Can I make them work? I want to...personally, i think they look great.

Also, I don't need a winning list...but I want a chance to win. Basically...if its a close game, then I'm going to have fun regardless of the outcome. My main opponent is going to be Cygnar if that helps

I think there's a disconnect between what you want to run (themey list, but not spamming the same type of unit if you can help it) and what Ravens of War actually is (RUN ALL THE STRIDERS!). I think the big reason to avoid tier in this case is that you want to run warbeasts for variety, but Ravens of War doesn't allow you to take any fury control solos (Forsaken, Shepherds): even though the tier 4 bonus is really good, you won't be able to run them as hard as you'll want/need to since Lylyth is only FURY 5.

If you want to make a unique eLylyth list, I would look at what the "standard" list is for her:
-eLylyth
-some combination of Ravagores and Bolt Throwers (at least 3+ total)
-a melee heavy (e.g. Typhon, a Scythean) for anything that survives your feat turn
-flavor rest to taste

This is a powerful list (if matchup dependent), but it's also extremely boring to play (both with and against): honestly you can make an eLylyth list that's fairly unique if you don't try to gunline it. Something you might consider is:

-eLylyth (+5)
-Carnivean (11)
-Typhon (12)
-Nephilim Bolt Thrower (6)
-Stinger (2)
-Forsaken (2)
-Shepherd (1)

With 6 points to play with. It's a group of warbeasts that can still make use of your spells and feat, but you have to actually close in with the enemy to win rather than try and nuke them off the board on the bottom of 1/top of 2. From a game night/non-tourney perspective you'll probably find people are more receptive to playing this type of eLylyth list because it's not her standard boring "win on feat turn from halfway across the table" list.

On individual models:
-Stingers Suicidal Attack is kind of a killjoy, but it's not really much of an issue once you realize that lessers don't generally live long anyways (13 boxes means little when you're ARM 12).
-Nephilim can be useful, but are situational. The Bolt Thrower is probably the most generally useful, Protectors can be useful for low defense warlocks but don't have much utility with eLylyth due to Shadow Pack, and Soldiers are unfortunately rather weak (mediocre combat ability, situational animus).
-Teraphs aren't the greatest, but if you're running eLylyth they can be a cheap way to get more guns on the field that benefit from both parts of her feat. You're generally better off with Bolt Throwers in that price bracket, though.

Chozo wrote:

Werewalrus wrote:

 ICleadpeople wrote:
If you are going to have these limits on your list why bother with this or any tier list? The whole tier system is designed around taking multiples of stuff to gain benefits for limiting yourself. Doubles is a strength of the Lylyth2 list, multiple Ravagores, Deathstalkers, and Stryders is core to this list.

I get that I'll need doubles for the actual troop selections...and I'm cool with that. I can kinda imagine them as being just one big unit. The beasts though...I do want some uniqueness. For example...i don't see to many nephilim being used in my meta...or the teraph for that matter. Are these units inefficient? Can I make them work? I want to...personally, i think they look great.

Also, I don't need a winning list...but I want a chance to win. Basically...if its a close game, then I'm going to have fun regardless of the outcome. My main opponent is going to be Cygnar if that helps

I think there's a disconnect between what you want to run (themey list, but not spamming the same type of unit if you can help it) and what Ravens of War actually is (RUN ALL THE STRIDERS!). I think the big reason to avoid tier in this case is that you want to run warbeasts for variety, but Ravens of War doesn't allow you to take any fury control solos (Forsaken, Shepherds): even though the tier 4 bonus is really good, you won't be able to run them as hard as you'll want/need to since Lylyth is only FURY 5.

If you want to make a unique eLylyth list, I would look at what the "standard" list is for her:
-eLylyth
-some combination of Ravagores and Bolt Throwers (at least 3+ total)
-a melee heavy (e.g. Typhon, a Scythean) for anything that survives your feat turn
-flavor rest to taste

This is a powerful list (if matchup dependent), but it's also extremely boring to play (both with and against): honestly you can make an eLylyth list that's fairly unique if you don't try to gunline it. Something you might consider is:

-eLylyth (+5)
-Carnivean (11)
-Typhon (12)
-Nephilim Bolt Thrower (6)
-Stinger (2)
-Forsaken (2)
-Shepherd (1)

With 6 points to play with. It's a group of warbeasts that can still make use of your spells and feat, but you have to actually close in with the enemy to win rather than try and nuke them off the board on the bottom of 1/top of 2. From a game night/non-tourney perspective you'll probably find people are more receptive to playing this type of eLylyth list because it's not her standard boring "win on feat turn from halfway across the table" list.

On individual models:
-Stingers Suicidal Attack is kind of a killjoy, but it's not really much of an issue once you realize that lessers don't generally live long anyways (13 boxes means little when you're ARM 12).
-Nephilim can be useful, but are situational. The Bolt Thrower is probably the most generally useful, Protectors can be useful for low defense warlocks but don't have much utility with eLylyth due to Shadow Pack, and Soldiers are unfortunately rather weak (mediocre combat ability, situational animus).
-Teraphs aren't the greatest, but if you're running eLylyth they can be a cheap way to get more guns on the field that benefit from both parts of her feat. You're generally better off with Bolt Throwers in that price bracket, though.

Awesome reply, thank you. I'll definitely look into avoiding the tier list if its a killjoy to play against. My main opponent is kind of discouraged as is (I won both games so far), so I don't want to bring in something that's gonna cause some consternation.

Werewalrus wrote:


Awesome reply, thank you. I'll definitely look into avoiding the tier list if its a killjoy to play against. My main opponent is kind of discouraged as is (I won both games so far), so I don't want to bring in something that's gonna cause some consternation.

It's not so much the tier list as it is eLylyth (I play Legion, and even then I consider her "default" list design to be really degenerate from a gameplay/enjoyment perspective): if your opponent is playing gun-heavy Cygnar without a good way to deal with stealth (Black 13th, a caster with Mage Sight, etc.) playing against her can be particularly frustrating since he doesn't really have the ability to beat you in a shootout (and if he does, it becomes a big game of gunline chicken which isn't much fun either). Playing a list where you have to get your hands bloody (using Shadow Pack as a delivery mechanism and not "ha ha, you won't beat me in a gunfight ever") gives them some chance to actually get some licks rather than slog up the board while you use his army for target practice.

Yeah, avoid theme forces unless you're interested in duplicate model/units.