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Alright, I'll start off. For me, its the following gak in the Horus Heresy.

1) The Emperor was an atheist who hated the concept of gods!

2) The Alpha Legion was fighting because they wanted the loyalists to win!

3) Horus turned traitor because he saw that in the future there wouldn't be statue of him, unaware that the lack of a statue was because of him turning traitor!

It feels like Dan Abnett just learnt what irony is, and he doesn't really know how to use it, but he wants to include it in his books. Maybe if he'd done a better job of pulling it off, he might've been able to pull off 3), but the others were stupid from the start. Firstly, why would a genocidal xenophobic conquerer who kidnaps children to use in private armies be opposed to being a god? Its just weird. Secondly, the Alpha Legion just seemed better as prideful warriors who gambled on the wrong side and lost, and were forced to spend the rest of their existence fighting a bitter campaign of guerilla warfare, despising their allies and their enemies equally.

The Tau

They don't fit and there is no way to really play them up as a significant force in the galaxy. The exist entirely because of lazy writing and deus ex machinas

I think you missed the points. The Emperor fully knew that gods existed. Thats why he created an athiest empire. He knew that the chaos gods drew power from their followers, so if he destroyed belief in gods, they would cease to exist. The second point: the Alpha legion was fighting to ensure a victory for Horus. Did you read the book? With Horus taking the throne, he would self destruct and take humanity with him, destroying the followers of chaos in the process. This would save the galaxy for the other races. As for the third point: im not going to go through the first three books but lets say that...its complicated. You are over-simplifying.

Necrons 2.0. Give me back my legion and get rid of the space Egyptians.

The Great Sleep: Seriously. fething Stupid

 Musashi363 wrote:
I think you missed the points. The Emperor fully knew that gods existed. Thats why he created an athiest empire. He knew that the chaos gods drew power from their followers, so if he destroyed belief in gods, they would cease to exist. The second point: the Alpha legion was fighting to ensure a victory for Horus. Did you read the book? With Horus taking the throne, he would self destruct and take humanity with him, destroying the followers of chaos in the process. This would save the galaxy for the other races. As for the third point: im not going to go through the first three books but lets say that...its complicated. You are over-simplifying.

Chaos Gods are powered by emotion, not belief. Secondly, regarding the Alpha Legion, yeah I oversimplified it. Basically they fought for chaos because they thought it would destroy chaos.

"And then [insert author's pet character here] roflstomped all his enemies because he's so awsum and kool"

Also anything about how the Ultramarines are so much better than everyone else.

So....A let's rant about 40k thread is the tone I got from the first post?

I'd be more inclined to go with it if your points made better sense. You're looking at things in too much of a one dimension approach, rather than as complex systems. Hell, your 2 was just smacked, and your 3 makes sense in the simplest of sci-fi or fantasy realms. It's the paradox of time travel, or in this case simply having glimpsed the future(and thus having traveled briefly). I'd encourage you to just ask questions instead of rant, you'd gain some good understanding from it.

RivenSkull wrote:
Necrons 2.0. Give me back my legion and get rid of the space Egyptians.

The Great Sleep: Seriously. fething Stupid

No thanks.

Much prefer the new Fluff.

RivenSkull wrote:
Necrons 2.0. Give me back my legion and get rid of the space Egyptians.

They were already space Egyptians. Scarabs and Monoliths existed. It just became more pronounced when they got some actual character as opposed to largely being mindless robot slaves to the C'tan.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Alright, I'll start off. For me, its the following gak in the Horus Heresy.

1) The Emperor was an atheist who hated the concept of gods!

2) The Alpha Legion was fighting because they wanted the loyalists to win!

3) Horus turned traitor because he saw that in the future there wouldn't be statue of him, unaware that the lack of a statue was because of him turning traitor!

It feels like Dan Abnett just learnt what irony is, and he doesn't really know how to use it, but he wants to include it in his books. Maybe if he'd done a better job of pulling it off, he might've been able to pull off 3), but the others were stupid from the start. Firstly, why would a genocidal xenophobic conquerer who kidnaps children to use in private armies be opposed to being a god? Its just weird. Secondly, the Alpha Legion just seemed better as prideful warriors who gambled on the wrong side and lost, and were forced to spend the rest of their existence fighting a bitter campaign of guerilla warfare, despising their allies and their enemies equally.

Why do you think Dan Abnett is the only Horus Heresy writer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:

No thanks.

Much prefer the new Fluff.

And I on the other hand think the new fluff is garbage.

I'll take it in a different direction. Angel of Fire is by far the worst book of 40k I've ever read. Worse than the salamander books. Instead of Macharius being Alexander the Great iin space it's all prophecy and chaos conspiracy crap. Also, instead of fighting system wide campaigns he kills people with swords one at a time. I would like to punch william king in the face after reading that book.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
Alright, I'll start off. For me, its the following gak in the Horus Heresy.

1) The Emperor was an atheist who hated the concept of gods!

2) The Alpha Legion was fighting because they wanted the loyalists to win!

3) Horus turned traitor because he saw that in the future there wouldn't be statue of him, unaware that the lack of a statue was because of him turning traitor!

It feels like Dan Abnett just learnt what irony is, and he doesn't really know how to use it, but he wants to include it in his books. Maybe if he'd done a better job of pulling it off, he might've been able to pull off 3), but the others were stupid from the start. Firstly, why would a genocidal xenophobic conquerer who kidnaps children to use in private armies be opposed to being a god? Its just weird. Secondly, the Alpha Legion just seemed better as prideful warriors who gambled on the wrong side and lost, and were forced to spend the rest of their existence fighting a bitter campaign of guerilla warfare, despising their allies and their enemies equally.

Why do you think Dan Abnett is the only Horus Heresy writer?

Out of 26 books he's only written 4 and contributed a short story to 4 others. That's a long way off being the only Horus Heresy writer.

This thread is going to go places.

 Very Superstitious wrote:
The Tau

RivenSkull wrote:
Necrons 2.0.

.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Also anything about how the Ultramarines are so much better than everyone else.

I fully concur. The Ultramarines may be the best in the art of war and strategic/tactical planning, but NOT in every branch! Let's hope we don't need to live and see another fluff-writer to make a same fanboy-ish mistake that started the great despise towards the sons of Guilliman. I Find them equally respectable as any other Loyalist Chapter, and like their way of strategic thinking, but not the new fluff that turned them into Marty Stues.

Just as a recap:

Pretty much the entirety of the Grey Knights fluff from the newest codex. It reads like a four year old's action figure narrative:

"..And there was this planet full of monsters that none of your guys could defeat, not even your coolest guy, and then my guys came and they totally destroyed all the monsters and then there was one really big monster and then my best guy got the monster cause he is super tough and then my guy killed all your guys too cause he is so tough but he's also SECRET."

All the Space wolves fluff..... i just find it a wee bit OTT

(Cue SW fanboy hate against me)

Some of the Ultramarine and Space Wof fluff, always 1-upping other Chapters, with every skill in the book.

Some latest Tau and Necron fluff which sometimes reads as: although I lost it doesnt count because ... (like they are trying to set up the Black Cruades now)

The tyranids whole "they're already too strong and this is only the scouts" thing. It just makes them go from total badasses to a joke, because it sounds dumb. It's like listening to an 8 year old say "oh yeah, well my guys beat all of your guys together and there's eleventy kajillion times infinity more and they recycle their dead and are super smart and...". Instead of making them into a horrifying threat, it basically just goes "well hey, these are literally unbeatable, gg". That's neither interesting nor fun and I hate it. They're so cool generally but if they'd just said the current incursions were most of the fleets, it'd be fine. They don't need to have "most of it on the way"; other races are plausible threats already such as Orks and Necrons, you don't need Tyranids to be super ultra unbeatable.

I hate how CSM are the Worf race - oh they're super tough and badass but literally everyone always beats them. Yeah, great work there guys, way to play up the main villains. You just know that if the progressed the plot ever that Chaos would slip on a banana skin and fall back into the warp or something. Bah.

The new flayed ones. Now, generally I love the changes to the Necrons. They have a lot of character now and you can make them into almost whatever you want. Flayed ones though have gone from deluded Necrons wanting to go back to flesh to just really really liking blood. It's naff and drains all their character away IMO. It doesn't help that their new sculpts are awful, whereas the old ones were amazing.

Eyjio wrote:
The tyranids whole "they're already too strong and this is only the scouts" thing. It just makes them go from total badasses to a joke, because it sounds dumb. It's like listening to an 8 year old say "oh yeah, well my guys beat all of your guys together and there's eleventy kajillion times infinity more and they recycle their dead and are super smart and...". Instead of making them into a horrifying threat, it basically just goes "well hey, these are literally unbeatable, gg". That's neither interesting nor fun and I hate it. They're so cool generally but if they'd just said the current incursions were most of the fleets, it'd be fine. They don't need to have "most of it on the way"; other races are plausible threats already such as Orks and Necrons, you don't need Tyranids to be super ultra unbeatable.

I hate how CSM are the Worf race - oh they're super tough and badass but literally everyone always beats them. Yeah, great work there guys, way to play up the main villains. You just know that if the progressed the plot ever that Chaos would slip on a banana skin and fall back into the warp or something. Bah.

The new flayed ones. Now, generally I love the changes to the Necrons. They have a lot of character now and you can make them into almost whatever you want. Flayed ones though have gone from deluded Necrons wanting to go back to flesh to just really really liking blood. It's naff and drains all their character away IMO. It doesn't help that their new sculpts are awful, whereas the old ones were amazing.

The Tyranids started out as the only end times threat.

Then the Orks, Chaos, and Necrons were propped up to also be the end times threat.

Orks and Chaos used to be far less threatening than they are now. And the Necrons weren't a thing until late 2nd ed and weren't revealed as an end times threat until 3e, whereas the Tyranids were the only threat capable of ending all life in the galaxy since 2e.

Chaos is less the main antagonist and more the Imperium and Eldar's personal problem, the Orks, Tau, Necrons, and Tyranids have no real interaction or pathos with Chaos other than that they're enemies and they fight sometimes.

The Orks are the galactic nuisance.

The Tyranids and Necrons are the biggest threats. The Tyranids are the new, unknown threat from beyond, the Necrons are the ancient, undying threat from before.

Sounds like you're just not fond of Xenos.

The Sanguinor.

 Kain wrote:
The Tyranids started out as the only end times threat.

Then the Orks- were propped up to also be the end times threat.

Are they, though? The only chance of that happening is if they unite, but I thought it was a fairly well established part of their fluff that they were too prone to infighting to do this?

I dislike the Imperial Guards for many reasons, some of the Eldars, and some of the Space Marines

 Troike wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Tyranids started out as the only end times threat.

Then the Orks- were propped up to also be the end times threat.

Are they, though? The only chance of that happening is if they unite, but I thought it was a fairly well established part of their fluff that they were too prone to infighting to do this?

They used to be more of a nuisance before essentially becoming green hurricanes of war. Waaaghs used to be a rare event, or at least big ones anyway, but now ones that can trample multiple worlds are pretty much occurring constantly.

The "Lion l'jonhson is just having a nap" is kind of dumb.

This is going to sound petty, I don't like how the Imperial Fists' color is yellow. It's a terrible color. And it's unfortunate because they have cool fluff and combat doctrine, but they have such a garish color. Even pink looks better on Power Armor. As Joe from Reservoir Dogs says it to Steve Buscemi's character when he complains about being called Mr. Pink: "Be thankful you're not Mr. Yellow."

Lack of the f-word.

They've used all sorts of cursing, but no f-word?

How will 40k ever be an HBO special?

 LoneLictor wrote:
Alright, I'll start off. For me, its the following gak in the Horus Heresy.

1) The Emperor was an atheist who hated the concept of gods!

2) The Alpha Legion was fighting because they wanted the loyalists to win!

3) Horus turned traitor because he saw that in the future there wouldn't be statue of him, unaware that the lack of a statue was because of him turning traitor!

It feels like Dan Abnett just learnt what irony is, and he doesn't really know how to use it, but he wants to include it in his books. Maybe if he'd done a better job of pulling it off, he might've been able to pull off 3), but the others were stupid from the start. Firstly, why would a genocidal xenophobic conquerer who kidnaps children to use in private armies be opposed to being a god? Its just weird. Secondly, the Alpha Legion just seemed better as prideful warriors who gambled on the wrong side and lost, and were forced to spend the rest of their existence fighting a bitter campaign of guerilla warfare, despising their allies and their enemies equally.

LOL! Wow, way to completely fail at reading comprehension. I could explain how you are completely misunderstanding the situations here, but it'd be easier for you to read the books.

Surprisingly little, actually. I think the one thing that bothers me is just how completely and utterly anti-xenos the Imperium tends to be. I mean, I get that if they weren't, there wouldn't be quite so much conflict in the grimdark darkgrimness of the 41st millennium, but honestly, the Imperium has missed out on a lot of opportunities to bolster the strength of the empire just because they didn't want to trust anyone but themselves. I can't recall the details in any way, shape or form, but I vaguely remember a scene in Fulgrim where the Eldar offered their aid in order to prevent the Heresy from ripping the Imperium in half, and not only did they not believe them, they got into a huge fight over it.

 -Volsung- wrote:
Lack of the f-word.

They've used all sorts of cursing, but no f-word?

How will 40k ever be an HBO special?

Our modern day swear words probably survive on one planet or another.