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Hey guys...

Starting a new project soon, working towards a 2250 point Warriors of Chaos Army and found a spare 130~ points spare after making an army that would encompass my ideal collection.

I have decided that this would be spent on either a Gorebeast Chariot or a small (3-4) unit of Ogres in which I would most likely buy a box of Ironguts.

Whilst I will acknowledge that neither of these are exactly game-breaking selections I have more or less narrowed my choice down to these two things, so now I'm just wondering in terms of gaming which is more effective.

Must say at this stage I am leaning towards the Ogres... just seems that after Ogre Charge, Stomp & great weapon attacks that these guys could actually be a reasonably destructive unit even if they aren't particularly survivable.

Anyway would love any input or advice!

Gorebeasts -v slow + killing blow impact hits, survivable, lots of attacks
Ogres as you said.
So which is better depends on whether you are fighting people who will come at you (gorebeast) who will shoot you lots (gorebeast) or will try to avoid you (ogres). Apart from that, if you prefer Ogres take them - better to have things you like.

Ogres are fantastic. They are exactly as good as OK ogres except they can also get marks and have a wider weapon selection. The downside is they can't get ironfists, are "stuck" with heavy armor (so you can't make bulls), you can't get a standard or look-out gnoblar.

But buffed ogres made to look like IG would cost 41 and if you have a champ he can roll on EOTG. Nurgle and Khorne are both really nice If you're doing just one rank then get Khorne. If multiple, I'd get Nurgle as the bonus attack won't come from supporting ranks. That said, a small group of Ogres is going to have the same problem as any, poor LD, never steadfast.

WoC has a bunch of units that other armies have...only better. It has Giants that it can give marks to. Ogres that can take marks. Daemon Princes better in all ways then DoC's. Trolls that can get AHW. Yet the army, because it lost 2A marauders, is now junk :p

Niteware wrote:
Gorebeasts -v slow.

12" march is slow eh? that's only 2 less than the average cav or chariot move. Plus I use them to go forward with my troops and either hold up an infantry block or smash aside a small unit so M6 is actually a bonus in my eyes.

Onto the decision on hand though I would honestly go for the gorebeast chariot as i just prefer it and it has 7 S5 attacks, T6 and 5 wounds plus killing blow impact hits but the ogres are very good too what with stomps and some impact hits of their own and they will look awesome if you convert them well.
If you can though, get them both! just swap which one you use every now and then.

Chariot can't march .

Ye i cant find that anywhere in the rules plus it also makes no sense. That means elf infantry are faster than their chariots actually in most cases that would mean the inf are either just as fast or faster than their chariots which is highly illogical.

 ferret61 wrote:
Ye i cant find that anywhere in the rules plus it also makes no sense. That means elf infantry are faster than their chariots actually in most cases that would mean the inf are either just as fast or faster than their chariots which is highly illogical.

It's in the Chariot rules. This caught me up too. It's tucked away in the first block of text, a casual mention that's something like "Because of this, chariots cannot march."

 Evertras wrote:

 ferret61 wrote:
Ye i cant find that anywhere in the rules plus it also makes no sense. That means elf infantry are faster than their chariots actually in most cases that would mean the inf are either just as fast or faster than their chariots which is highly illogical.

It's in the Chariot rules. This caught me up too. It's tucked away in the first block of text, a casual mention that's something like "Because of this, chariots cannot march."

Yep it makes no sense but think of it this way a chariot always moves x". so it charges x" +2d6". Infantry moves y" can march for 2y inches or charge y"+2d6

Caught me out too - I originally thought 12" march, hoorah but was then directed to the chariot rules. Sad times.

Thanks for the responses guys.
Mark of Khorne & great weapons on the Ogres was what I was leaning towards as its going to be a small unit.

Niteware wrote:
Caught me out too - I originally thought 12" march, hoorah but was then directed to the chariot rules. Sad times.

I nearly made someone rage quit fantasy when I fought him with my chariot heavy WoC army. I was marching them 12" and neither of us knew. I felt so bad, and when I found out the real rule I texted him immediately. :(

I think most of us made the march of the chariot mistake. Our group did the same.
I'm guessing they took away marching since they move like a lone model and don't wheel.

Fair enough I will try to renember that as for the ogres ye thats a good combo just beware of other s5 or 6

Ogres have poopy LD too.

Not if their within 12" of the general which they should be

 Evertras wrote:

Niteware wrote:
Caught me out too - I originally thought 12" march, hoorah but was then directed to the chariot rules. Sad times.

I nearly made someone rage quit fantasy when I fought him with my chariot heavy WoC army. I was marching them 12" and neither of us knew. I felt so bad, and when I found out the real rule I texted him immediately. :(

Good on you man that kind of sportsmanship is sometimes lacking. Besides you could point out on Ulthuan.net there is an army list where everything moves 9" a turn minimum

It's weird overall. I've been trying to figure out the same thing--whether to take a Gorebeast Chariot or Ogres. I bought the Chariot model this summer because I thought it looked so cool, was killy, and hit hard. Then I found out about the Chariot "no march" rule too. Major buzz killer.

Anyway, if you think about the Gorebeast Chariot as a really slow monster, what's it good for? If things come to you...but it moves like a Dwarf. Given that I want my Warriors to get into combat as soon as possible (Banner of Swiftness for 15 points makes them march 10" which is pretty good), they are going to leave it way behind. This is far different from the old rules whereby you could try to get your chariot into position to do a flank attack once you had tied up an enemy in combat.

So...there must be a question in here somewhere...aren't the Ogres also much better for this? At least they can get to the flanks. (If they survive, but that could be said about either).

If both sides just line up abreast and you advance full speed, then a Chariot might be a bit behind. However, if you charge your Warriors in, then you obviously don't need it. More so, lines become disrupted, chaff moves ahead, units die or flee and things are already a bit different.

Also, while the Gorebeast is slow on the move, it's charge range is quite nice. Swiftstride is about 8.5" + 6"; that's noticeably faster than M4 infantry (11") or INF + Banner (12"). Then there's combat stats...I5 for example is obviously faster than Ogres, who can theoretically get more attacks...and don't forget terrain. My Gorebeast suffered three wounds from charging through a wood on the weekend (still killed that Frost Phoenix though).

Yeah, it's not crazy slow compared to the rest of your army. Unless the rest of your army is all trolls marching and fliers. I just think Chaos Ogres are really versatile. They are basically 2 units worth of options, bulls and ironguts, and choices of marks. That's a lot of flexibility.