Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been considering picking up the Daemon codex (have the old one but actually never played with them), and I am really interested in a Tzeentch army. Tzeentch is by far my favorite of the gods and I want an army focused around it. My question is, is it possible to have an all Tzeentch army and still have the list be competitive? What would you recommend for lists and tactics to use? I am aware of what they can pull of with heralds and divination shenanigans, but I'm sorta trying to avoid being TFG or the cheese player.

Thanks

Here's my problem with Tzeentch...

Warpflame...

It literally can cause you to pull out your hair, and cause maniacal laughter in your opponent just as much as you might yourself... The fact that all your spells and abilities as Tzeenchian shooti goes, has this ability tacked on, makes it extremely annoying if you don't kill what ever you are initially shooting at...

One way around it is with the Locus of Conjuration adding +1 str to your spells you cast in your unit. This can be very useful if you run multiple heralds in the same squad all using the Tzeenchian Primaris Power.

However, again, with the MEQ armies running around TEQ just as annoyingly prominent you're going to be finding yourself throwing shots at stuff that most likely wont make it past the higher armored infantry.. Pushing wounds can work with mass fire, but you also have to be careful because of the number of times your opponent might get to roll FNP...

In a sad, sad instance, I have witnessed Ghazghkull Thraka
Run around with a 2+ FNP v_v A mad doc in the group having dies later only took 3 shooting attacks for his group of nobs to pass a few Toughness Tests and they all walked away with their leader toting a 2+ FNP v_v

The screamerstar is indeed where Tzeentch shines though... Sure, it's a dick move, but the game has never been balanced in the least bit... You cant expect an army to come out these days without some sort of spamming cheeze or absolute nonsense that someone out there will have a problem with.. With that, I have to say, just use it

Tzeentch is the most powerful MonoGod Daemons army. Fateweaver, ScreamerStar, Tzeentch DPs, are all nasty. You won't have a problem running MonoTzeentch.

Yup Tzeentch is by far the most powerful mono- god build (infact it is likely really the only viable competitive mono-god build)

Best Special Greater Daemon (Fateweaver)

Arguably best Greater daemon

Heralds to spam divination

Screamers (for screamer star builds)

Horrors are arguably the best troop.

It's not your problem if people think you're TFG.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to play what happens to be good.

I've played Tzeentch stuff for 10+ years and heard a comment after winning my first game late August with a list that had Demons the latest Codex. The Demons stole the show and basically won me the game. Am I TFG? If so, lolz. It depends who you play.

Breng77 wrote:
Yup Tzeentch is by far the most powerful mono- god build (infact it is likely really the only viable competitive mono-god build)

Best Special Greater Daemon (Fateweaver)

Arguably best Greater daemon

Heralds to spam divination

Screamers (for screamer star builds)

Horrors are arguably the best troop.

Interesting, I think that a Mono-Slaanesh army would be brutal. 3x 18 Seekers and 4 or 5 units of Daemonettes - I do not think anyone could really get through that many wounds. Throw in a trio of dirt cheap Chariot Calvalcades and you are in business.

Thanks for the replies! I really like the idea of a screamstar because I have always been a fan of their model.

 calypso2ts wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Yup Tzeentch is by far the most powerful mono- god build (infact it is likely really the only viable competitive mono-god build)

Best Special Greater Daemon (Fateweaver)

Arguably best Greater daemon

Heralds to spam divination

Screamers (for screamer star builds)

Horrors are arguably the best troop.

Interesting, I think that a Mono-Slaanesh army would be brutal. 3x 18 Seekers and 4 or 5 units of Daemonettes - I do not think anyone could really get through that many wounds. Throw in a trio of dirt cheap Chariot Calvalcades and you are in business.

Not to mention Daemon Princes of Slaanesh pretty much dominate the Air

 calypso2ts wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Yup Tzeentch is by far the most powerful mono- god build (infact it is likely really the only viable competitive mono-god build)

Best Special Greater Daemon (Fateweaver)

Arguably best Greater daemon

Heralds to spam divination

Screamers (for screamer star builds)

Horrors are arguably the best troop.

Interesting, I think that a Mono-Slaanesh army would be brutal. 3x 18 Seekers and 4 or 5 units of Daemonettes - I do not think anyone could really get through that many wounds. Throw in a trio of dirt cheap Chariot Calvalcades and you are in business.

It can kind of work but Tau just eats it up because killing 20+ t3 models is not that big a deal for them. As for daemon princes that means either running them as hqs or running a keeper. It can be done but most FMC builds will include fateweaver. Eldar can also do pretty well at killing seekers. Throw in dangerous terrain tests and you really lose a lot of seekers (unless you run 3 heralds with locus of grace)

It can be done but the top competitive armies will likely eat it.

Yea templates will make a slaanesh army very sad. The reason that Tzeentch is so viable is because Fateweaver gives you control of

The warpstorm table
and
The grimoire

Which when they work in favor of a daemon army are actually obnoxious to face. Being on the bad end of a unit with a ton of offensive output and a 2++ rerollable is frustrating.

Divination also makes Tzeentch incredible. Spam those heralds!

Well, Screamer star builds are very popular and powerful these days. If you lke, go for it.

I have not played tzeentch much but i can get an army relatively cheap ... I am generally a nurgle daemon player tbh. but he has some models for 200 dollars that is hard to pass on.

fateweaver
4 tzeentch heralds modeled so that they can be with or without discs
6 beasts of nurgle
20 horrors
24 plague bearers
tzeentch fllying DP

So its not a screamer star but a horrorstar. how would you load these guys up? what gifts and hellforged artifacts? how would you deploy? i think there is enough meat here to buy the army regardless but if i leave it as is (can always add something later as allies) how would you create the list ... from 1500 - 2000)?

Most of my daemon list is tzeentch. the exceptions being.. Plague bearers as troops and seekers of slaanesh as fast attack.

Tzeentch is the most competitive God, and in my opinion the coolest.

I've replaced Fateweaver with a Herald, some Flamers, Terminators and a Sorcerer. I have been using him primarily for his re-roll. Here's how my Allies look now:

Herald of Tzeentch- Level 3, Disc, Grimoire
4 Flamers
10 Horrors
9 Screamers

I rolled Scryer's Gaze, 4++, and Misfortune today. After seeing Ahriman and two Heldrakes arrive because of Scryer's Gaze, Thousand Sons slaughter stuff in cover because of Misfortune, and my Screamers run around with an absolutely stupid 2+ re-rollable Invulnerable Save for most of the game, I'd say Tzeentch demons are pretty cool. The only reason I won't be taking a 2nd Herald is the fact that I only have one model. It's unfortunate that I can't get the Grimoire without having a Prince in my list (if I use Fateweaver). It will hurt when I don't get the +2 Invulnerable Saves, but for the most part I see it being awesome.

If they're this crazy as Allies, I'm not sure I want to play them as a Primary detachment. I'm not saying I'd be invincible, but I sure wouldn't make friends with Fateweaver and 4 Heralds + Tons of Screamers and Princes.

I'm looking to make a 1000 point tzeentch list at the moment. Not sure what to take since it's far too low to have Fateweaver and/or expensive FMCs.

Alternatively I could build a list around Fateweaver, with a load of horrors with heralds, plus some screamers. But I think at that point level it could be too little damage potential for such vulnerability. Mainly T3 with 5++ and no EW, they'll die like guardsmen in light cover...which is to say, quickly.

Or I could go for two pimped out Lords of change. Their mobility and efficiency makes them reliable damage dealers, but that would leave me with about 400 points to spend on the rest of my army, which isn't going to get me far.

My main problem with mono-Tzeentch is exclusively psychic shooting; my 2nd least favorite change to Daemons (after the Bloodcrusher nerfs). I've had way too many times when either the psychic test fails (not too often there, but GK Aegis/Reinforced Aegis really helps that happen, not to mention Shadow in the Warp), or I get Denied my Witch. Plus then they have random amounts of shots. Horrors almost never do anything for me, even with a Herald. AP4 shots, even at S6, just aren't that impressive unless I get really good shot amounts, like a Yahtzee of 5s or 6s.

Warpflame has never really made or broke the game for me. I usually don't end up targeting the same unit twice with those weapons anyway. Daemons are so fast they should be assaulting after 1 or 2 rounds of shooting.

So Fateweaver, very good, generally a great buff for all Daemons. Lord of Change, also excellent with 3 Divination powers and 2 Greater/1 lesser Rewards (can't Grimoire yourself, so put it on someone else to buff the Warlord).

Horrors, decent, good to maybe have at least 1 unit.

Flamers, possibly good in the right situations (certainly nothing like what they were last year though). I actually think a Flamer-star could be as good as a Screamer-star, but that's a theory. They still have 2 wounds at T4, 2 points cheaper per model, still jump 12", and who wants to assault 9D3 template hits? But that 207 points could be used elsewhere to greater advantage if you prefer the Screamers.

Screamers, definitely good. Super fast, turboboosting AND getting potential extra hits on enemies. Lots of regular attacks, and some decent AP2 output, but crappy WS. I like them for Linebreaker too.

Burning Chariot, NEVER TAKE ONE, until the FAQ the Exalted Flamer to be either Relentless or have assault weapons. It's too bad, a neat model.

DP Tzeentch, very very good, go Mastery 3 and go probably all Biomancy, but if you get Iron Arm on the first 2 rolls, go for Telepathy after that.

But be aware that many armies can easily dakka the crap out of flying MC models. Tau, Eldar, Nids with loads of gaunts and hive guard, even IG.

Another problem that is hard to get around is Talisman of Arthas Moloch. Just pack up your models when someone fields it.

Riptide-Earth Caste, Talisman of Arthas, Heavy Burst, TL-Fusion, Velocity Tracker, Early Warning

Not nasty against Tzeentch daemons at all - just kill it right?

I think Tzeentch is your best bet as a mono god army. All of them are pretty cool, but I think Khorne falls flat as the weakest (again...) The trick with warpflame, is not to spread it around. Warpflame rolls are at the end of the phase, so focus fire.

A Lord of change is my personal favorite go to all around awesome model. Take it with max rewards and you can get a VERY powerful MC. Make him your warlord for even more awesome. Last game my LoC was buffed with ++4, and a +4 FnP, had instant death, and all his attacks were armorbane and fleshbane. On top of all of that, he was S8 thanks to the 10pt reward, had flickering fire, prescience and forbearence (which he cast on himself for the ++4)
Other games I have had a ++4 re-rollable invulnerable save with the +4 FnP. Then I have had games where I am not that resilient at all.

Screamers are pretty awesome, and massed pink horrors can put out some pain. S5ap4 is the bane of xenos. Tzeentch soul grinders are nothing really special though. The re-roll saves of 1 is nice I guess. You go slaanesh for melee, and nurgle for shooting on grinders. Tzeentch and khorne are iffy.