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So I haven't seen anyone else post this up. I suck at making/ updating topics, but since nobody's talked about it here I figured I might as well get the ball rolling.
Here's the link.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/524168246/shadowsea-conquest-of-the-underlands



The sister/ parent game of DeepWars, which has been on Kickstarter before, is trying to fund a new rulebook and as many new warbands as possible. Faction starters are like Deepwars- 4 metal figs, 1 big resin one, scenic bases, stat cards, and quickstart rules.

Game runs on a souped- up version of the Song of Blades and Heroes engine, with a bit more bells and whistles. Factions are pretty varied-

The boring steampunky pirates, adventurers, and Asas..."Templars"


The yucky- mucky- messy Dark Mariners


The jungle fever warrior women and zoofolk of the Axibalan Empire


They want to make more factions if they hit higher funding. The also have the ENTIRE Deepwars line available, as well as individual figures from each of the current factions they're working on.

ALSO- Antimatter Games (the makers) have gotten a big chunk of their back catalog back from Cavalcade, who had previously distributed the Shadowsea figures.

There's lots of pictures on the campaign's home page. It's nice stuff. I've been picking up a few random metal figures, and they're nice quality. Some of the metal ones can get quite chunky too. The new rulebook is supposed to be more like the DeepWars rulebook, which is quite a nice one.

Check it out! Enough of you pledge I'll be getting my scaly hordes sooner rather than later!

EDIT 10/17- You now can get bonus points to use on extra models dependent upon your pledge level and how high funding gets. Free things are good, right?

Interesting setting.

I'm a big pushover for underwater stuff. Their Deepwars stuff just showed up on Miniature Market, and I am having a hard time not ordering them!

Has anyone played this system?

I did a quick Deepwars skirmish with my son the other day- kept it real simple. Scaly horde versus my semi painted fortune hunters. If you've played Song of Blades and Heroes you've already got the basics down.

You can do some fun stuff with the depth- swim around obstacles, blast out of range, dodge under incoming wildlife (which there can be a lot of), avoid environmental hazards... Deepwars has got a lot to offer.

Plus it's got built in campaign rules, warband progression, magic systems, technology systems, relics and treasure to kit out your warband (if you can recover it), custom character generator rules, flora and fauna guides, plenty of fluff and it's all in color too.

There's rules for explosives, breaching crafts, ancient tech, air supplies (via magic or tech), crippling limb rules... plus you can kill your own characters if you surface from deep water too quickly (unless they're properly equipped).

ShadowSea has a lot of the same, but it's in the hollow world under the polar caps. A good chunk of the models will also be able to come on land with some modified rules (which should be in the new rulebook).

I have played a couple games, but my hobby time is spent more on painting and modelling stuff rather than playing (for now at least).

The game is quite simple to play, and the stat cards really speed up gameplay, so you can catch on quickly. You play by model activations, so on your turn, you activate one model at a time and each model does all its actions before the next model activates. You roll dice to activate each model, and there is a chance that you can fail that dice roll and your turn will end. I kinda like that, as it makes you plan which models to use first, and adds a certain element of surprise to your game.

The rules are written to strongly encourage campaign play and RPG elements, and there is a character generator, so you can create stats for any model you wish to use. All my games have been one-off games though, and were very fun.

Most games are about 5-10 models per side. I have had nothing but good experiences with Antimatter Games - their KS projects are fulfilled in a timely manner, miniatures are of very high quality, and Eric, the owner is very passionate about creating a good experience.

As a bonus, gaining access to the Dragonblood line from Cavalcade miniatures has really spoiled backers for choice of what sorta stuff they want to purchase from the KS.

Only about $1.5k to go before they reach the goal, and there are a ton of stretch goals to be unlocked. Nice easy stretch goals as well.

I'm in on this, the minis look really nice. One thing that perhaps should be pointed out is that they are very flexible with trading and swapping around stuff. For example, the pledge levels are very much based on the starter sets and the rulebook, but these can be traded out for points (6 for the starter sets, 3 for the softcover rulebook, 6 for the hardcover), that can then instead be used to grab minis that interest you. And there is a lot to choose from!

Also, almost funded now!

I'm also in on this, and was in on the last two Deepwars kickstarters as well. This was right up my alley, as I wanted to be a marine biologist as a kid (now I just dive lol), but the three dimensional aspect of the combat looks interesting and unique. Mordheim was a long time favorite of mine and some friends, so we're looking forward to getting into this, as it also has campaign rules. I'm trying to get my fence sitting buddy to go in on the deluxe package, as the battleboard is really impressive and I think its a good deal overall for 4 boxes of studio painted models. Plus you get to help design a guy. as far as the vanity packages I've seen on kickstarters, this one is pretty awesome.

The first KS models are quite excellent, and I love that they have scenic bases, since underwater bases arent exactly common. Nice clean and crisp sculpts, solid details. Many are one piece, so hey, no pins for a change. The last one also gets bonus points for delivering more or less on time (about a month off). They also offered the ability to get your pledge in multiple shipments, so I got the chunk that was ready earlier rather than waiting til the end for the last few sculpts.

All in all, one of the better KS I've done. Its a small company, and precisely the kind of patron project I feel KS was made for.

Really nice looking stuff, and DeepWars in particular had a very unique niche and from what I can gather made use of the marine enviornment in the rules in a particularly interesting way.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I'm trying to get my fence sitting buddy to go in on the deluxe package, as the battleboard is really impressive and I think its a good deal overall for 4 boxes of studio painted models. Plus you get to help design a guy. as far as the vanity packages I've seen on kickstarters, this one is pretty awesome.

If you do talk those fence sitters into joining, what faction do you think you'd have that character join?

This thing is almost funded too!

I like the fact that the creator is already starting to generate ideas for further stretch goals/ future projects.

I'm all for it as I want a new Kalath the Reaver!

Where does this project fit with respect to the existing line?

 Phobos wrote:
Where does this project fit with respect to the existing line?

I believe this is to make Shadowsea more in line with Deepwars- starter sets, quickstart rules, updated rules lists... that kind of stuff.

This is a new printing of the rules. It should be in color and full of fun stuff to read like the DeepWars rulebook.

I REALLY like the Deepwars book. I've got the softcover, but it's NICE. There's lots of junk to read in it, lots of illustrations, lots of fluff, lots of charts and tables for playing around with in the game. People in the comments section say the hardcovers are really nice too.

I see no reason the Shadowsea book would be any different.

Once that's funded, along with some new starter sets specifically designed for Shadowseas, it's time to flesh out all the existing factions.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I'm trying to get my fence sitting buddy to go in on the deluxe package, as the battleboard is really impressive and I think its a good deal overall for 4 boxes of studio painted models. Plus you get to help design a guy. as far as the vanity packages I've seen on kickstarters, this one is pretty awesome.

If you do talk those fence sitters into joining, what faction do you think you'd have that character join?

Most likely Scaly Horde/Draconid Legion or Dark Mariners. Those are the ones he'd get painted and wants to use as his main factions. Also mine for that matter. I picked up the entire line for both last KS but I'm going to dip into the amazons for this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Phobos wrote:
Where does this project fit with respect to the existing line?

I asked that on the KS page, and it looks like many Deepwars models can be used without modification in Shadowsea. Those without direct factions (fortune hunters and dark mariners) are allied to other factions (Atalan to the Amatzl, Scaly Horde to the Draconid legion). You can also have a setup with an aquatic section of the board, using models that wouldnt work on land, and the shadowsea models on the rest. So a fair amount of crossover.

A skirmish game with pirates, steampunk robots, sea-monsters and giant rhino people?

You have my attention.

For the uninitiated, what are the differences between Deepwars and ShadowSeas?

Do you need both to play games with miniatures from either game?

Are they fully compatible?

One question I don't think I've ever seen raised regarding this game - how's the fluff? Is it engaging and well written or the opposite, dross? Is there much overlap between DeepWars and ShadowSea rulebooks?

 Alpharius wrote:
For the uninitiated, what are the differences between Deepwars and ShadowSeas?

Do you need both to play games with miniatures from either game?

Are they fully compatible?

DeepWars is under water. ShadowSeas is on the ground. Underground. It's all underground. Under the polar ice caps. Depth becomes an issue in DeepWars.

There's a LOT of cross compatibility from what I can see- most of the DeepWars stuff can operate on land (except giant fish obviously), especially since a good chunk of the figures are air breathers. Plus there's rules in the books for customizing/ making stats for whatever figures you feel like using. You could proxy an entire game with just a set of the rules if the figures aren't to your liking.

There are some rules that affect how certain types of characters perform on land- big dive suits get sluggish unless you ditch the gear.

Having never read the first edition of ShadowSeas, I'm not sure how it is fluff wise. DeepWars has got a lot of goodies to read.

This is actually fully funded now. Still enough time to get numerous stretch goals!

I like a good portion of the models, however there's no additional value as the campaign continues, just a wider range of models. So let's look at each level and check out the value associated in terms of money-to-points ratio for US/non-US backers (represented as $USD for each individual point). These ratios do not include additional pledge moneys and merely account for the base pledge levels.

Basic [$12+$5] (1pt) - $12.00/$17.00
Sorceress Special [$40+$5] (N/A) - N/A
Captain [$50+$10] - $7.14/$8.57
Battle Pack [$75+$15] - $8.33/$10
Major [$125+$20] - $7.35/$8.53
Commander [$175+$25] - $7.00/$8.00
Game Master [$225+$35] - $7.03/$8.12

Now a look at the individual models: from the population of models @1pt a pop a cursory glace puts each model at around $8.50 when bought individually (no shipping included so this is just a US estimate). Larger models tend to have a slightly better money-to-points ratio (with the exception of a few outliers).

I may pledge later on after having another look through the range (certainly some great models) but probably only for the models.

That's a fair enough way to break it down, Ehsteve.

For me, I funded it because I like the aesthetics of the models, I find the setting appealing, and skirmish games with robust campaign mechanics aren't especially common. But everyone does the Kickstarter thing for different reasons!

Ehsteve, I generally agree that the discounts here aren't enormous, and I think people are pledging mostly for the reasons zarnof mentioned. However, I performed an analysis similar to yours a few days ago, and got slightly different results in a few cases. I'll just post it here, please correct me if I got anything wrong! Anyway, as seen, if one can afford to go all the way to the Game Master Pro level, there is at least a little discount you'd be getting ($6.5 per point, as opposed to the baseline $8 per point).

Basic [1 point, $12+$5] - $12.00/$17.00
Sorceress Special [4 points, $40+$5] - $10.00/$11.25
Captain [6 points, $50+$10] - $8.33/$10.00
Battle Pack [9 points, $75+$15] - $8.33/$10.00
Major [17 points, $125+$20] - $7.35/$8.53
Commander [25 points, $175+$25] - $7.00/$8.00
Game Master [32 points, $225+$35] - $7.03/$8.13
Game Master Pro [46 points, $300+$45] - $6.52/$7.50

Oh, and to address DE's question regarding the fluff:

I don't anyone can truthfully speak to how well-written the ShadowSea content is, as it has yet to be released. I myself don't actually have the DeepWars book, but a friend does, and I read through it for a fair while. I found it well-written; it's certainly above the caliber of writing in many minis games, and it stands to reason ShadowSea will be the same way. I also particularly liked the imagination of the setting, which is certainly very detailed, sprawling, and augmented by truly top-drawer art. However, it's very personal to like the "feel" of a setting, so I can't speak for anyone else on that account, just myself. From an objective (as objective as critiquing someone else's writing can be, at least), "English lit" perspective, what I have read is engaging stuff.

In terms of overlap between the two books, there is a good amount of overlap. They are in the same game world, and use the same ruleset, with largely the same factions. There is some variation of some of the factions, and DeepWars takes place exclusively underwater while ShadowSea takes place on land or land/water mix maps (hence rules for flying). The two can be played individually, or in combination with each other.

 Ehsteve wrote:
I like a good portion of the models, however there's no additional value as the campaign continues, just a wider range of models.

The last one did have a few points added in at upper levels as bonus goals. However this really is a patronage project. Its something that wouldnt be made otherwise, so I'm happy to help bring it into being. For me, the bonus/value is in getting something I would never be able to get otherwise, unless I commissioned it myself.

This one has a few points of freebies to include with your pledge the higher you go.

I have a feeling things will ebb and flow a bit more as Darklands and Bones wrap up, but hopefully things start creeping back up as this one gets closer to ending and people have a better handle on what (little) finances they might have left.

I feel the same as Bossk_Hogg though- I may not be getting a load of freebies, but I know my money is going to help fund something directly that I want to see come to fruition, that has a good chance of not getting made otherwise.

Keep in mind this isn't the first time Antimatter's tried to run a KS for Shadowsea to get these models made.

Plus I like their studio paint jobs and I like looking at their pictures. That Clal-Chk Warrior's probably about average 28mm figure size too.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
This one has a few points of freebies to include with your pledge the higher you go.

I have a feeling things will ebb and flow a bit more as Darklands and Bones wrap up, but hopefully things start creeping back up as this one gets closer to ending and people have a better handle on what (little) finances they might have left.

No kidding. It feels like we're being trolled on the pledge total.

Plus I like their studio paint jobs and I like looking at their pictures. That Clal-Chk Warrior's probably about average 28mm figure size too.

Yeah, that's what pushed my friend to go on the GMD. And getting to design a fig. I keep pushing for a Clal-Chk in a naval jacket, admiral hat and monocle.

All the (smaller) projects are looking very volatile in pledge terms this month

Darklands: First edition has seen a stream of drop outs from low 'holding' pledges, fortunately outnumbered by new pledgers

Impact Asian Chibi has seen such volatile pledging (up and down) that they've had to publish an update on it as some backers were beginning to worry the company was messing with the numbers

I'm pretty sure it's just the number of high quality (or high value, or both) projects running this month. People have been backing lots to start, then dropping them one by one as the need extra cash for their favourite(s)

...and a few more pictures of the Dagathonan Brute!
These dudes are some big suckers!

I pledged for both Deep Wars kickstarter and Mini Kickstarter. I have been absolutely blown away by how awesome the miniatures are. The Recon Scout I got from the mini-kicker is one of the best sculpted miniatures I have purchased, and looks absolutely fantastic.

If you have a chance to get in on some of these miniatures, do it. You won't be disappointed.

 Trodax wrote:
Ehsteve, I generally agree that the discounts here aren't enormous, and I think people are pledging mostly for the reasons zarnof mentioned. However, I performed an analysis similar to yours a few days ago, and got slightly different results in a few cases. I'll just post it here, please correct me if I got anything wrong! Anyway, as seen, if one can afford to go all the way to the Game Master Pro level, there is at least a little discount you'd be getting ($6.5 per point, as opposed to the baseline $8 per point).

Basic [1 point, $12+$5] - $12.00/$17.00
Sorceress Special [4 points, $40+$5] - $10.00/$11.25
Captain [6 points, $50+$10] - $8.33/$10.00
Battle Pack [9 points, $75+$15] - $8.33/$10.00
Major [17 points, $125+$20] - $7.35/$8.53
Commander [25 points, $175+$25] - $7.00/$8.00
Game Master [32 points, $225+$35] - $7.03/$8.13
Game Master Pro [46 points, $300+$45] - $6.52/$7.50

The reason you got different results was that in some calculations you did not include that fact that the rulebook is also exchangeable for 1pt for pdf digital, 3pts for softcover and 6pts for hardcover. This accounts for any difference. I'll probably end up backing for some DeepWars deep sea diver suits.

EDIT: Welp, seemed I derped it and mixed up the DeepWars pdf with the ShadowSea pdf points, disregard the above (apart from the backing that is).

So!

The inevitable bonus points are starting to appear! Good thing, because the last few days have been some crazy ups and downs to keep this game funded.

Basically the more money the game raises, the more you've pledged is going to net you extra points to spend on figures. Not bad. That $225 pledge is going to net you a lot of extra pieces if this thing goes high enough.



I'll stick this up on top as well. There's a new WIP in the latest update as well. Crazy pirate guy with bombs.

So I came here to post that they had added new stretch goals to add value to the kickstarter, but highlord beat me to it!

It's admittedly not the insane stetch goal value of something like Bones, but if it can hit the "bonus point" stretch goals, it starts to become a very solid deal. And besides, as bossk said, it's supporting a true patron project that legitimately needs to cash to get made, and has high quality minis.

I went with Ancients of Atalan the first time, and the Axibalan land faction isn't really jumping out at me.

Speaking of which, I still haven't painted my ancients...

Better get to that...