Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here's the setting:

My buddy's gathering all of his Chaos toys and super-heavies, I play loyalist marines and have no super-heavies.

He'll shoot for about 4000pts while I'll get 5000pts; I'll also have 3 strategic cards, he'll only have one.

Here's what I'll most likely face, Slanesh/Nurggle uber combo:

Nurggle Warhound titan with Megabolter and Plasmablastgun
Defaced Shadowsword (Volcano cannon)
Scabeiathrax The Bloated (FW uber Nurggle Daemon Lord)
Zarakynel (FW uber Slanesh Daemon Lord)
Typhus + Zombies (to bubble-wrap the super-heavies)
These also might show up: Chaos Storm Eagle, Blight Drones, Nurggle Decimators, Nurggle/Slanesh flying DPs...
Obviously at 4k the super-heavies are gonna eat-up a lot of points but will be a massive threat.

Here's what I'm thinking of bringing:

IMPERIAL FISTS:
Titanhammer Squad: Lysander + 3x 5-hammernators + vortex grenade
Stormtalon, TML
3x Centurions, grav-cannons and MLs in a LR, MM, storm bolter, extra armour (hoping to concuss some Daemons)
TFC

DARK ANGELS:
Interrogator-Chaplain, TDA, Mace of Redemption, MBs, displacer field
Librarian, TDA, force axe, MBs, displacer field
Librarian, force axe, PP, powerfield generator, jump pack (he'll follow the Centurions and join them when they come out)
DW termies x6, 3xCF, CML
DW termies x5, 2xCF, CML
Predator Assassin Squadron: 4 preds, all LCs, dozer-blades

BLACK TEMPLARS:
Masters of The Chapter:
Chaplain, Armor Indomitus
Emperor's Champion
Chapter Master, TDA, Burning Blade, Shield Eternal, MBs (he will be my Warmaster)
6x Terminator Captains, dual Claws, MBs
LRC, MM, storm bolter, extra armour

Strategic Assets:
Precise coordinates (no scatter for deep striking units)
Relic Weapon (+2S and +2A for my Warmaster, with the BB he'll be at S9)
For the 3rd: I'm unsure between Vortex Grenade, Replacements (brings back a fully destroyed formation) or Re-Arm (replenishes all 1-time-use weapons) all 3 of them require a strategic resource.

Finest Hour: unsure whether to roll on the Personal chart or take the Son of Dorn.

Overall tactics:
massive terminator assault on turn 1 with the Titanhammer formation and the Deathwing, turbo-boost the 2 Land Raiders forward; use the preds and DW termies to try and get rid of the Shadowsword and the Titanhammer to try and remove hull points on the Warhound. The TFC will try to thin out the zombies. I'm hoping to pull off an assault with my Masters of the Chapter using the Finest Hour by round 2, probably tackling the wave of zombies. I'm worried that claws will be useless against the Daemons but those are the models I have and I'm thinking that at least they'll bubble-wrap my Warmaster.

I don't have any experience facing multiple super-heavies; I've faced the bio-titan before, but never a Warhound or the uber-daemons. I'm thinking the Shadowsword needs to die first due to the D weapon but what do you guys think? Do I need to change my target priority? Do the Daemon-lords present a greater threat? Do I even stand a chance?

Any tips or feedback is appreciated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just realized that the MBs on the captains will help against the Daemons too.

Kill all the super heavies/titans first. When they explode everything around them will die!

You can take down super Heavy quite easily.

Has anyone faced Scabeithrax? Or Zarakynel?

I have scabby and suggest that you do not go near him with infantry, anyone not mark of nurgle or daemon gets hit by something automatically within 6 inches

he's sloooowww so will probably be deep struck in and most weapons don't hurt him (T9), poison only wounds on a 6 so that can't be relied on. if your

have no idea about zarakynel so don't know what he does.

just had a thought, has scabbys rules changed in a newest IA book? hopefully he has been given it will not die if this is the case, just because

Side note on Strat cards for CSM. There is one that allows the CSM player to burn all the objectives he/she controls during a "break". Be careful about letting the CSM control too many objectives going into a "break". I have seen a win for the CSM side going into the 1st break because the other side could not hope to score enough stat points the rest of the game.

Thanks for the tip!

Scabeithrax has T9 W6 and a 3++, all Gargantuan creatures have IWND now... And yes, the new rules still make him a nasty piece of filth...

Well in this situation I would focus on super heavies first or titans first just because when they blow up their blasts will kill a lot of stuff around them. If monstrous creatures come about use strength D weapons and hope you can put the max wounds on them.

He's also bringing the "Chaos Altar" which improves his invulnerable saves by 1... Hooray for 2++ Daemon Lords...

Zarakynel can get up the field faster than Scabby. It's been a while since I've gone against her, but I think I remember something about her CC attacks ignoring invulnerable saves so keep hammernators away.

We bumped it up another 1000pts; I'm adding 3 pods:

-an Ironclad with assault launchers, seismic hammer and dual HF
-5 Sternguards with 5 combi-meltas
-Contemptor, Mortis-Pattern in Lucius Pod (counts-as pod), dual Kheres and CML

You guys think I should arm the contemptor with dual CCWs? Or stick with firepower?

Gargantuan Creatures do not come with It Will Not Die, but they do come standard with Feel No Pain. Scabiethrax does have (HOORAY!) a buffed invul of 3++. That helps me not be pissed about his only having 6 wounds (which is less than Ku'Gath for some reason). He Feels No Pain on a 4+ however. He will deepstrike because he's so slow, but he has a Hellstorm template with heavy bolter S and AP. They nerfed his Blade of Decay however, it does not cause wounds to be doubled anymore :( It's like they don't want to sell the model anymore....

Zarakynel is faster, she/he/it can move 12" like a normal Garg and is of course Fleet due to Slaanesh. Also she's got a 36" shooty attack, but not a huge deal. The Souleater sword does not ignore invul saves anymore (another crappy nerf!) but it will regain wounds for Zarakynel on a 2+, just like the Daemons Souleater Exalted Reward. At only T7, I don't think Zarakynel is too much of a worry actually.

Also of note, Gargantuans are NOT immune to psychic powers without a Strength Value now, so if you can cast Hallucination or Misfortune, etc that will help you out big time. They can of course Deny The Witch, but only on a 6 for those two models. And the stomp attacks aren't nearly as nasty, causing D3 small blasts (representing their feet) in close combat at Initiative 1 (yes, even Zarakynel stomps at I1). And only on a 6 do the models touched by the Stomp blasts get removed from play, otherwise there is no effect on a 1, and 2-5 is just a S6/AP4 hit.

The Chaos Altar is a super good Strategic Asset, however it ONLY works for Chaos Marine models (like Obliterators). So Tzeentch Oblits on a Skyshield near that would have a 2++, and most likely be a Cult of Destruction too


So if you have some Thunderhammer Termies, I would say assault Scabiethrax, and you'll have him tarpitted. Pretty much the same with Zarakynel.

Here is my anti-Daemon Lord tactic for you....if you are getting 3 Strategic Assets, take Precise Coordinates (at the start of any of your turns all friendly deepstriking units will not scatter, no roll required), Vortex Grenade (12" D blast), and maybe Flank March for the Apocalypse Formation of Librarius if you want to put them in a Storm Raven for 2nd turn damage, whose psychic choir power is a 24" Strength D large blast....you need 5 Space Marine Librarians or Rune Priests to do that.

Just regular deepstrike the Termies and Drop Pod the 5 Librarians (or Flank March them in a Storm Raven), and you'll probably just erase the Daemon Lord of your choice upon arrival. There is a 1/6 chance that each D blast would not cause any wounds to them, but super unlikely for both. On a 6 either one would be killed outright.

I should not be revealing these secrets, I'm a Daemons and Chaos player! But we are treacherous bastards


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, the Titan will pretty easily die to any D blast, but I don't think his weapon loadout is that great. I'm surprised to see anyone not use 2 turbolasers actually.

Maybe do the Termie deepstrike Vortex on a Daemon Lord, and Flank March a Storm Raven with Librarius from the rear or side of the Titan or big tank, and pop some multimelta action there...then next turn do the psychic choir power.

But masses of Terminators should make you competitive. These 2 Daemon Lords are certainly not the worst ones (Angraath and Aetaos'rau'keres are much much scarier!).

Thank you Lord Krungharr! Just noticed the Altar twist myself. Sadly I only own 2 libbies... But I will go for Divination and hope for Misfortune (whichever one forces saves rerolls) and Prescience.
I'm very tempted to take Re-Arm for my 3rd asset as it would replenish Lysander's vortex grenade and the CM's orbital bombardment. Replacement could be good too since he will most likely wipe out my preds. I could just take that at my first break.

the warhounds void shields are 12" away from the model so if you can drop some heavy guns/assault units within 12" you are stripping HP from the word go.

Thinking the 5 combi-melta sterns will do just that, assuming they get the range as he'll probably bubble wrap the crap out of that titan...

If you have enough librarian models you could go for a choir. for additional D strength

Iirc I thought strength D ignores invulnerable saves, my book isnt on me but can anyone clarify?

Also void sheilds are not a problem. As a IG player I would just add HWS's with 3 autocannons. Give them the order to bring it down so they are twin linked and then just take the sheilds off with medium strength fire. Use missile launchers or what not. Not extremely difficult if you cant get close, when I played an apoc game my friend bubble wrapped the titan with cultists so my SW allies couldnt pod in and light it up with meltas so I used medium strength weapons to drop the shields and then use all the high strength ap1-2 weapons you can to strip the hull points.