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Fluxscribe the Deciever 330pts

Flying Monstrous Creature

WS8 BS6 S6 T5 W5 I6 A4 LD9 SV3+

Hellforged artifacts: warp-forged armour, daemonic flight

Axe of tzeentch: The axe of tzeentch grants Fluxscribe a 4+ deny the witch roll and and is a force weapon.

special rules: daemon of tzeentch, deepstrike, psyker.

Psyker: Fluxscribe is a psyker mastery level 3 and may roll for powers from the change, biomancy, telepathy and telekinesis disciplines

The Deciever: Fluxscribe may deny a challenge that has been issued to him and still fight in a combat as normal and if within 12'' of the enemy warlord, he may use his warlord trait as his own until the warlord is no longer within 12'' of Fluxscribe.

Deceiver rule is just plain wrong. Along with his uber-good stats you add this on to make sure that he can't be taken down.

Lol Deciever is a neat rule but seems a bit OTT.

You also gave him T6 to remove ID, pretty much the only real weakness Daemon Princes have.

Needs to be toned down a fair bit before I'd play against it.

Honestly it was meant to be D3 hits instead of D6 hits, and taken away the T6

I am a bit confused on some of your items. For example does Axe of Tzeentch have a melee profile, or is it just a piece of wargear? Does it grant a blanket 4+ deny the witch or is it a 4+, that is improved to a 3+ because he is a psyker and a 2+ vs. any psyker mastery level 2 or under? You need to say when you roll for this extra warp charge, I know its stupid but you have to tell people when to do things, even if its obvious. Are you saying he knows all the spells from Lore of change AS WELL as having access to 3 rolls on any table of choice giving him 6 powers??? Not liking that to much. On top of this he has a pair of mindshackle scarab? Or are they, it doesn't say if he still makes the attacks against you as well as the D3 against his unit, or if he forgoes his own attacks to inflict D3 against his unit. What defines best? You should say of the daemon players choice. This guy needs toning down, drastically. I wouldn't play against this guy, because he is too good at too many things. He is one of the best psykers we know of, having 7 powers, a daemon prince stat-line, Wings and a pair of mindshackle scarabs.

This is how you could make him by removing excess rules and making it clearer.

Fluxscribe the Deciever 300pts

Flying Monstrous Creature

WS9 BS6 S5 T5 W5 I9 A5 LD9 SV3+

Hellforged artifacts: warp-forged artifacts

Axe of tzeentch: Range - Str +1 Melee, Force, Whispers of Tzeentch (Any Psyker wishing to target Fluxscibe with a psykic power must pass a leadership test on 3d6, otherwise the power must be redirected to a different target, if there are no other targets the power is considered failed)

special rules: daemon of tzeentch, deepstrike, psyker.

Psyker: Fluxscribe is a psyker mastery level 2 which access to the disciplines of Change, Telepathy, Biomancy and Pyromancy. He may choose to forgo rolling on these tables to default his powers to Puppet Master and Dominate.

Now he is a master manipulator, how I would imagine someone with the Name deceiver to be. Only mastery level 2, but can default to 2 great powes which would fit his theme. He is still protected from psykic powers, but makes up for losing mindshackle scarabs with a better weapon. Force isn't as good as you'd think, because he could smash anyway for strength 10, and he hasn't actually lost any strength thanks to axe. What do you think? More reasonable?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I am a bit confused on some of your items. For example does Axe of Tzeentch have a melee profile, or is it just a piece of wargear? Does it grant a blanket 4+ deny the witch or is it a 4+, that is improved to a 3+ because he is a psyker and a 2+ vs. any psyker mastery level 2 or under? You need to say when you roll for this extra warp charge, I know its stupid but you have to tell people when to do things, even if its obvious. Are you saying he knows all the spells from Lore of change AS WELL as having access to 3 rolls on any table of choice giving him 6 powers??? Not liking that to much. On top of this he has a pair of mindshackle scarab? Or are they, it doesn't say if he still makes the attacks against you as well as the D3 against his unit, or if he forgoes his own attacks to inflict D3 against his unit. What defines best? You should say of the daemon players choice. This guy needs toning down, drastically. I wouldn't play against this guy, because he is too good at too many things. He is one of the best psykers we know of, having 7 powers, a daemon prince stat-line, Wings and a pair of mindshackle scarabs.

This is how you could make him by removing excess rules and making it clearer.

Fluxscribe the Deciever 300pts

Flying Monstrous Creature

WS9 BS6 S5 T5 W5 I9 A5 LD9 SV3+

Hellforged artifacts: warp-forged artifacts

Axe of tzeentch: Range - Str +1 Melee, Force, Whispers of Tzeentch (Any Psyker wishing to target Fluxscibe with a psykic power must pass a leadership test on 3d6, otherwise the power must be redirected to a different target, if there are no other targets the power is considered failed)

special rules: daemon of tzeentch, deepstrike, psyker.

Psyker: Fluxscribe is a psyker mastery level 2 which access to the disciplines of Change, Telepathy, Biomancy and Pyromancy. He may choose to forgo rolling on these tables to default his powers to Puppet Master and Dominate.

Now he is a master manipulator, how I would imagine someone with the Name deceiver to be. Only mastery level 2, but can default to 2 great powes which would fit his theme. He is still protected from psykic powers, but makes up for losing mindshackle scarabs with a better weapon. Force isn't as good as you'd think, because he could smash anyway for strength 10, and he hasn't actually lost any strength thanks to axe. What do you think? More reasonable?

A normal DP is base str6! so ill keep him at that, i will also keep him at mastery level 3 but ill make all his powers rollable instead of knowing them. Ill change the deciever rule and the axe.

Really? My bad, I assumed T 5 meant strength 5. The reason I want with mastery level 2 is because then he doesn't have to cost as much, and can reasonably default to powers. A level 3 can't do that, because the next power would have to be either hallucinate or invisibility, neither of which would be fair because an army built around those powers would be godly. How do you plan on changing the deceiver rule, because as it was I don't see anyway of it working out fairly. Maybe It could just be a rehash of Eldrads ability to shuffle D3 units around before the game, to show that the deceiver was whispering lies into the commanders ear or something?

granted it doesnt make one hundred percent sense but yea, he essentially convinces the character not to fight him.

Fateweaver is also WS 1 - just because the standard DP has S6 doesn't mean your guy needs to equal or exceed him in every way.

That kind of sums up where I think your going wrong with some of your ideas.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Fateweaver is also WS 1 - just because the standard DP has S6 doesn't mean your guy needs to equal or exceed him in every way.

That kind of sums up where I think your going wrong with some of your ideas.

What, by trying to match the original? (Genuine question, not argument starter)

Yes. He doesn't *have* to match or exceed the original in every way. He can be worse at stuff, and that will both allow you to get away with more neat bonuses, and make the concept more interesting too

-1 to weapon skill, -2 to initiative and -1 to attacks.

Better than nothing man, but its pretty obvious when you leave them *just* enough WS to 3+ against most things, and INT 6 which is proof against most melee specialists he should worry about...

Essentially, its not the sheer amount you add or take away, but where precisely it was added or taken from and how that interacts with certain other elements of the game.