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As the rules state, if you roll "snake eyes" (double 1s) when testing nerve, the enemy will always be Steady and fight on, regardless of any modifiers.
Always?
I take it it means the unit is Steady for this particular combat phase, or against this particular enemy permanently. Because permanently? I don't think so. What's the census?

Only for that test.

Thank you, the rule was a bit sketchy on that point.

Rolling Nerve tests is a very specific order. In the hardback book it's on page 37, under the headings When to Test and How to Test.

When you're enacting How to Test, there's a sequence of events, and very specific results depending on what you roll.

"Each unit has two numbers under its Nerve value. The
first number is the unit’s Wavering limit, the second
number is its Routing limit.
To test the Nerve of an enemy unit, roll 2D6 and add to
the result the points of damage currently on the unit,
plus any other modifiers that apply (such as banners and
musicians – see below). This is the total you’re using
to ‘attack’ the enemy unit’s Nerve. This total is then
compared with the Nerve value of the enemy unit."

Now, say you roll snake eyes and the unit is 13/15 and has, uh, 400 points of damage on it. So we follow this:

"If the total is equal to or higher than the unit's Routing
limit, the unit suffers a Rout (see below)."

HOWEVER, the rule of Exceptional Morale Results change the result from the How to Test section.

"Double One - Hold Your Ground!
If you roll snake eyes (double one) when testing
Nerve, the enemy is filled with implacable resolve
and will always be Steady and fight on, regardless
of any modifier."

So even if your 13/15 unit just took 400 points of damage, rolling double 1's mean a result of 2+400 = 402 damage, far exceeding the 13/15 nerve value. But, since you rolled double 1's, the unit's state will always be Steady no matter what the modifier may be. It will not be Wavering or Rout!, a double one always is Steady.

The "always" is in application to ignoring any result of Rout! or Wavering from the normal How to Test procedure. The unit will always be Steady on double 1's, or it will always be Wavering on double 6's if the original result would not call for Rout.

So here's something that just came up. Let's say a unit of orcs is being attacked by two units of elves. The first elf unit causes the orcs to waver. The second elf unit damages the orcs again, but rolls snake eyes on their Nerve test.

Are the orcs still wavering (from the first unit)? or are the orcs now steady (Snake eyes "overwriting" the wavering that was already in place?)

edit...

 Azazelx wrote:
So here's something that just came up. Let's say a unit of orcs is being attacked by two units of elves. The first elf unit causes the orcs to waver. The second elf unit damages the orcs again, but rolls snake eyes on their Nerve test.

Are the orcs still wavering (from the first unit)? or are the orcs now steady (Snake eyes "overwriting" the wavering that was already in place?)

Usually in melee, the Nerve test is only rolled once all units have attacked the target. There are some rare instances where this doesn't happen, but about 99% of the time it does.

The rules (as I read them) state that damaged units roll nerve once per turn for shooting (at the end of the shooting phase) but that nerve is rolled after every melee encounter - making melee a lot more vicious in terms of breaking and routing units. Hardcover Rulebook, p37 "When to Test."

Yes, but a melee encounter includes every unit attacking that particular target.

Sorry, I misunderstood your original question. Here's the rules, page 36 of the hardcover

"At this stage, there will be a number of combats on the
table equal to the number of enemy units you charged in
the Move phase. Pick one of these combats and resolve
it completely before moving to the next, and so on until
all combats have been resolved."

A combat is an enemy unit with one or more of your own units having charged it. You work out the Nerve check after that combat is complete - that is, your one/two/three/etc units have rolled their attacks against that enemy unit.

IT IS possible to force an enemy unit to take multiple nerve checks. If the combat was your unit A charging enemy unit X, and melee happens and nerve checks are taken... then your unit B attacks enemy Individual Y and melee happens and nerve checks are taken and Individual Y is Routed!, and your unit B continues the charge and rolls high enough and comes into contact with enemy unit X, enemy unit X now has another combat even though it already had one and already had rolled a nerve check.

Yep - but nearly always it is only one check per unit per combat phase - missile, then melee.

You know... I don't think that I have ever seen a unit route from a Zap! - no matter ow zappy the Zap! or how damaged the target.... (Breath Attack on the other hand....)

The Auld Grump

Oh I have. Zap is great to waver/rout enemy warmachines. Pretty good chance of getting 1-2 damage on a 3-dice zap against most warmachines and rolling average will waver, slightly above will rout.

Ahhhhh... well that changes things up a little from the games we've had here then. We were rolling after every unit had it's attacks - assuming that every single unit's melee encounter was a , well, a "melee encounter".

Ah well, all part of learning the rules. I've got some charging questions to post up soon as well from the 4-player game we had 2 days ago. I took photos which should make the questions a lot clearer.

Yup! There's only a handful of rules, but once you've got them down you'll never need to check the rulebook again.

F'instance, this past Saturday we played several 1000 point games, each lasting less than an hour.
(one of my 1000 point armies was 8 regiments, 1 war machine, and 2 characters, so still lots of units!)

 Azazelx wrote:
So here's something that just came up. Let's say a unit of orcs is being attacked by two units of elves. The first elf unit causes the orcs to waver. The second elf unit damages the orcs again, but rolls snake eyes on their Nerve test.

Are the orcs still wavering (from the first unit)? or are the orcs now steady (Snake eyes "overwriting" the wavering that was already in place?)

You can always consider the second "snake eyes" as if the unit just gone to wild or bold after some incredible feat of strenght, and so returned to the steady result. For the orkz? Maybe their commander is just to intimidating to ignore, or the unit finally broke that line beetween rage and fury...

"Seeying its moar'ax starting to weaver, Kru'gal growled barking furious orders, screaming like a wild beast. Eventually its scream atracted the attention from his lackeys, and the vision of its might and fury filled their hearts with awe and fear. There was somethings worst tham death, and it was death by the hands of Kru'gal, the orcs looked each other and joined the howl of the boss with their own voices. Kru'gal smiled insanely and lead the change on the battle tide."

How dare you attempt to forge a narrative! That's strictly reserved for GW games, didnt you know?

Forging a narrative from an incorrect interpretation of the rules?

As long as we're consistent - after all it worked fine for 5 games till this thread set us straight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And speaking of breaking the rules - I've come up with the answer for my Wardancer Dilemma for when I break up the Pan-Elven list into Elves and TK - unit(s) of Blade Dancers in the regular Elven list.

Sorted!

 judgedoug wrote:
Forging a narrative from an incorrect interpretation of the rules?

Or a house rule.

There have been games where after we found out the 'right' way to do things we kept right on doing it wrong, 'cause wrong worked! (The dice mechanics in Babylon Project, to be precise.)

The Auld Grump