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So I am trying to weigh my options here with several different lists. These are all going to use a single FoC.

HQ
Chapter Master w/ power axe, eternal shield, artificer armor = 215
7 Honor Guard, 1 Relic Blade, Standard, drop pod = 255
Elite
Ven Dread w/ heavy flamer in drop pod w/ beacon =180
Ven Dread w/ TL Las, ML = 160
6 Terminators w/ CML = 260
Troops
3x 6 Initiates w/ las/plas = 357
10 Initiates w/ sword brother, combi-flamer, power axe, flamer = 180
In LRC w/ MM = 260
Fast Attack
Stormtalon w/ skyhammer missiles = 130
Total
1997

This list will include the multi-melta drop pod coming down first to either try to pen a vehicle, or drop a heavy flamer template down. The C.M. and his honor guard will come in second turn, after the LRC has moved flat-out across the board and try to get in to position to avoid being shot at while lining up a charge.

List number 2:
HQ
Chapter Master w/ power axe, eternal shield, artificer armor, melta bombs = 220
7 Honor Guard, 1 Relic Blade, Standard, drop pod = 255
Chaplain w/ powerfist, auspex = 120
Elite
Ven Dread w/ heavy flamer in drop pod w/ beacon =180
Ven Dread w/ TL Las, ML = 160
Troops
3x 6 Initiates w/ las/plas = 357
10 Initiates w/ sword brother, combi-flamer, power axe, flamer = 180
In LRC w/ MM = 260
Fast Attack
Stormtalon w/ skyhammer missiles = 130
Heavy
Devastator Squad w/ 4 Missile Launchers = 130
Total
1992

This one gives a chaplain to the LRC crusader and makes them even better in CC and in the assault. I also get a devastator squad in place of the 6-man terminator deepstrike distraction. So really im trading the terminators for a chaplain and a dev squad.

To he honest, I don't particularly like either lists, so short of rewriting the whole thing from scratch, here are some tips:

-if the CM is gonna swing last and isn't gaining an extra attack from dual CCWs, give him a PF or TH

-put the blob of initiates in the pod (for late game objectives) and give the LRC to the HGs/CM for max performance

-lose the Ven upgrades and the extra initiates and get them rhinos for mobility and Helldrake protection (while still firing from hatch)

-if you're gonna have a "suicide pod" on turn 1, I would look into sternguards with HF and/or combi-meltas instead of the dread

Good luck and keep up the Crusade.

Thanks for the honest review. You make a lot of sense with the Chapter Master. the power axe is definitely not an optimal choice. I was pretty much going with it just because of the model I had. However, I could easily use either the Teeth of Terra or Burning Blade. If I drop the termies down from 6 to 5 I can get in the Burning Blade. I think I will make that change actually.

And I have been going back and forth on whether or not to put the HG/HQ in the LRC or put them in the drop pod. My concern with sticking them in the LRC is that it would then become priority number one immediately. Nobody would shoot at either dreadnought with their high str weapons if they knew my CC beast unit and Warlord was in the the heavily armored tank. Cause if that LRC gets immobilized on turn 1, that kind of screws me over. However, if I have the HG/HQ come in with no scatter behind enemy lines, I can decide where to go and how to set myself up for a charge. Now they have two priority targets, an LRC with cc crusaders, or the beatstick HG.

I see what you are saying about the helldrake protection and just leaving my guys out in the open. definitely something to consider. Because yea, just standing in cover isn't what it used to be I suppose. I need to work on getting some rhinos then, because I have none.

As for the Sternguard, that is a great idea. Something I have thought about for sure. But the sternguard with those upgrades can get pretty pricey. I do enjoy have two dreads out there, but I may proxy some sternguard in a game or two to see what happens. I do love the idea of combat squadding them to both blow-up a transport and then kill the contents. Not something my Dread can do by himself.

Burning Blade is pure awesomeness. I would truly recommend it with your Eternal Shield CM.

I understand your idea with the HGs in a pod, but I have tested it out with a full pod with Calgar and the HGs and if the enemy has any sort of mobility and is half-smart they will get the feth out of there as soon as it lands. Whereas in a LRC they can't be ignored, which will attract a lot of bullets (which the LRC can withstand if you deploy carefully), meanwhile your dreads and other units might stay alive a bit longer. This is from actual experience.

Rhinos (IMHO) are a must these days, while a pod is surprisingly more resilient, the rhino is more flexible and can be put to more uses (transport, moving LOS-blocking terrain, tank-shock, etc...)

I completely agree with the sternguards being pricey, specially with combis they're as expensive as they used to be. And I love dreads too (got 1 regular, 1 FW ven, 1 GW ven, 1 Ironclad and a contemptor) but they truly lack the resiliency needed to make up their cost, every now and then you might get lucky and recoup their point-cost if they get ignored or if you get a charge on some fearless unit that has no weapons to hurt it (zombies) but beyond that they're just "1st-blood" fodder. It's a tough call.

Actually I was looking at the units and rules and made a discovery, that I messed up the first time I played with honor guard. The champion has honor or death, so he HAS to make a challenge. I think that means that my HQ couldn't have challenged and that the chapter champion must do it in his place. I could be mistaken in that regard. But either way I think this change would be better.

So if I go with the list with the chaplain, I can drop all his extra gear, take him bare-bones which gives me the points for the burning blade. Then I stick the chaplain with the HG in the drop pod and the CM in the LRC with the crusaders. Now I really do have the threat split up. Because both squads are going to be huge in CC, and both are going to be quickly approaching their lines.

HQ:
The drop pod does make that expensive unit a bit of a one hit wonder. I have tried a LRC with a crusader ( squad of 10 and 5 all with combat weapons (many options there) and tack-on the chapter master (total 16!) with a burning blade and see if that works for you.

Elite:
Try a dakka dread: 2xTL-AC and see if that saves points and works as good (than TL/LC ML): I have used on flyers with some good results in a pinch (or when shaken).

Sternguard in the drop pod is a good go-to for blowing up soft to mid targets, you have the option to add combi-weapons as desired and combat-squadding can allow some split target killing so they should exceed their cost if used carefully.

FA:
I suggest that dropping in a 2xHF skimmer or two may get the same result as the vet dreadnaught I tend to use the 2xMM version though.

Stormtalon: I like your loadout, I use the same. My only issue is for me it tends to arrive turn 3 and you are hard pressed to make it earn it's points.

May I suggest 3 HB attack bikes OR a squad of bikes with 2 gravity guns and combi-gravity gun? It keeps those Tau a little more honest (only means to use gravity guns effectively).

Troops:
The smaller squad sizes are a good option but the Rhinos give some flexibility especially since you need them to score at some point so getting there and surviving are of equal importance. Driving around and letting rip with a special weapon never hurts either.

Try a couple drop pods for troops to get them to easy to take objectives, I like to have at least one squad around just in case.

Hvy:
A Vindicator would be in theme if you ever get to rub money or points together but the dakka-pred does well (AC, SS-HB) if you still feel you need horde/soft-target killing.

I see you want an "in your face" list so I figure the above suggested help keep with that theme.

You are totally right about the "in your face" type of list. I guess I never realized it, but that sums up my style of play. Really clicked with. yeah, "in your face" IS where I want to be.

I do really like the idea of having two land speeders, and have very much considered buying a few. But after playing with Ork Buggies, I have seen how quickly AV10 w/ 2 HP can be destroyed. Although I honestly would run them like you do, with 2 multimeltas. But what I like about the dreadnought in the pod is that it comes in turn one, and is then a locater beacon for the second pod. One thing I have considered is dropping in an ironclad with twin heavy flamers. AV13 is surprisingly better than AV12 and I get TWO flamers out of it. Just need to squeeze the 20 points for it.

And the rhinos will probably find their way in to my list eventually, but after purchasing my LRC and Stormtalon, I may have to let my wallet recover. I looked at rules and saw the fire points for rhinos is on the top, that means 360 degree shooting! I wasn't aware of that and now really like the idea of shooting from the rhinos

I also like the vindicator. In fact it's one of my favorite tanks in the game, just the idea of it. In my eyes, it's what a tank should be. Tough, front armor and has a huge friggin gun. However, If I were to go with a big guns list, I would definitely have two of these in it. Like my Siege-Breaker army of Imperial Fists. Two vindis and a (centurian) devastator squad. Coupled with tac squads in rhinos w/ heavy bolters and Lysander with a big squad of TH/SS termies. Dorn was really the best primarch.

For your shooty dread I would suggest dual TLAC as well. Use the updated rules for the Mark V Mortis dreadnought in IA2. For 125pts you get a standard dakka-dread with Skyfire and Interceptor when it doesn't move. It's an auto-include in all my lists nowadays and replaces my Aegis Line with quad-gun, it's tactically more flexible and you can easily give it a cover save.

 Icculus wrote:
You are totally right about the "in your face" type of list. I guess I never realized it, but that sums up my style of play. Really clicked with. yeah, "in your face" IS where I want to be.

If you play Black Templar it tends to be the style... Orks have always loved these guys as playmates.

I do really like the idea of having two land speeders, and have very much considered buying a few. But after playing with Ork Buggies, I have seen how quickly AV10 w/ 2 HP can be destroyed. Although I honestly would run them like you do, with 2 multimeltas. But what I like about the dreadnought in the pod is that it comes in turn one, and is then a locater beacon for the second pod. One thing I have considered is dropping in an ironclad with twin heavy flamers. AV13 is surprisingly better than AV12 and I get TWO flamers out of it. Just need to squeeze the 20 points for it.

I can understand the Ironclad plan there, I have used it.
The problem I had was the initial flaming is fantastic but I had trouble getting secondary targets without them running away.
I found I had to almost drop in the middle of a target rich environment to grab a second target and all the massive shooting he would take by doing that.

And the rhinos will probably find their way in to my list eventually, but after purchasing my LRC and Stormtalon, I may have to let my wallet recover. I looked at rules and saw the fire points for rhinos is on the top, that means 360 degree shooting! I wasn't aware of that and now really like the idea of shooting from the rhinos.

I cannot count how many times an opponent was surprised by me blowing up a vehicle with a stray plasma gun in a Rhino, I like snap firing the heavy weapon as well and see if I get lucky...
Use that LRC with a crusader squad with CC weapons and pack it to 16 models (48 attacks at least!), it is glorious: driving, jumping out, shoot and assault (combat ramp!).

I also like the vindicator. In fact it's one of my favorite tanks in the game, just the idea of it. In my eyes, it's what a tank should be. Tough, front armor and has a huge friggin gun. However, If I were to go with a big guns list, I would definitely have two of these in it. Like my Siege-Breaker army of Imperial Fists. Two vindis and a (centurian) devastator squad. Coupled with tac squads in rhinos w/ heavy bolters and Lysander with a big squad of TH/SS termies. Dorn was really the best primarch.

Vindicators should be well loved by the BT: dig the enemy out of their fortifications and be up-close-and-personal.
The two Vindicators is typically how it should be done since one lone tank tends to get killed early in the game BTW: never forget to add the stormbolter...