I don't know how to state my confusion w/o coming across as a Troll. I GENUINELY don't understand this. I was informed that it probably won't be an issue, because even by my interpretation, a majority of players will still choose to pick out the Unit Champion. It's kind of long, and it's more to hopefully show someone else my process, and see what step I'm missing.
I have no issue with this, and this was the first thing pointed out to me at the
FLGS. My concern isn't really who can strike, or what they can strike. It's more along the lines of 'who
HAS to be hit'? if that makes sense. This rule is fairly simple. Are you in Base contact with an enemy model? If yes, then you get to swing. It does also say that a model will normally only strike against anything in base contact, and I'll come back to this. One exception is supporting attacks, as they have permission to not be in base contact, and swing as if they were. (
pg. 45-46) At this point, the book has only covered what to do when in contact with units. It hasn't covered any ground for Characters both in or out of units, or Command groups. Casualties are not removed from base contact though. In fact the rules specifically give us permission to do the exact opposite. Yes, I'm aware that this is to represent the rear models filling in for the front models, but this doesn't change the stats or abilities of any models actually in base contact
at this point in the rules.
EXAMPLE (of rules up to this point)
A unit of Slayers is in base contact with Unit A and Unit B. No Commands/Characters at this point. All we've covered at this point in the rules is that the Slayers in contact with Unit A have to swing at Unit A. Slayers in contact with Unit B, have to swing at Unit B. Specific Slayer models within the unit that are in base contact with with both Units A and B, can choose which one to hit, or if they have multiple attacks, they can split them between the 2. Any models for supporting attacks have the same restrictions/permissions.
I have no problem with any of the rules so far up to this point. Most units will have Characters/Commands, but we haven't covered them at this point in the rules, so there are no instructions on how to interact with them at this point. In relation to the discussion, I will AGREE that the attacking models can only strike against models in base contact and if this is the sole reason that my opponent HAS to attack Champions when they're the only thing in base contact, then that's the way it is. My confusion comes later on, so keep reading if you're willing to help me get my head around this.
Since we don't have instructions up to this point on how to deal with Characters or Commands, we need to look at their rules. If we didn't have the rules on how to interact with these models, then even characters would be treated as a member of their unit, and wouldn't be able to be hit. So, I'm going to look at the Character rules next, just to show that I don't have any issues with them. On page 99 it gives
permission for models that are in base contact with both a Character and the unit he is with, can choose to strike/split attacks at the Character. Excess wounds do not carry over even though he is a member of a unit, so this is an exception to the existing rule of pulling models from the rear rank and are assigned directly onto the model being hit. We have an extra blurb about models only being able to attack models they are in base contact with. This again SUPPORTS that attacks have to be swung against Champions also (but I'm getting to that), but only covers what happens in relation to Characters specifically since the Command rules will be covered in their relevant section.
EXAMPLE (of rules up to this point)
Unit A now has a Character. There is 1 Slayer only in base contact with him, and another one in contact with both him and his unit. We're given permission for the Slayer in contact with both the Character and his unit to strike/split attacks between the Character and the Unit. The Slayer that is not in base contact with the characters unit MUST strike the character. This is a restriction imposed by the Character rule which forces that model (and his supporting), to strike the character even though he is a member of a unit. Any wounds caused by models that choose/forced to hit the character are assigned to that specific model, so cannot remove casualties from the rear that the Combat Rules have laid down, and any excess are lost instead of carrying over.
In short, in combat, the Character is treated as a separate unit even while joined to a unit. This is an over simplification, but it's really only relevant to the discussion.
Now lets go back to Champions and how to interact with them, since this is where I feel that I am getting confused.
*A Champion gets to use his own profile, but follows all the existing rules on combat. So he can only swing/split against models in base contact.
*Enemy Models can direct their attacks against the Champion
if they wish So like a Character, the opposing player has been given
permission to direct his attacks against the Champion.
*Wounds caused are forced on the model and excess wounds are lost. This gets around the existing rule of removing models from the rear, and the excess wounds are lost instead of applied to the unit, much like Characters.
Unlike Characters, there is a missing statement covering what happens when a player is solely in base contact with the Champions. Players have permission to hit them, but they aren't forced to like they are with Characters. This is supported by 2 different statements on
Pg. 93. The 'If they wish...' part supports that it is optional. What happens if a player doesn't wish to strike the Champion, is he prevented from attacking at all? I don't believe so, because we have the existing rules stating that we treat him as a member of his unit. The 2nd statement, that backs both of these points up is the next paragraph. Unless slain by a direct attack, the Champion must be the last
RnF to be removed. What this is saying to me is that if we don't want to treat the Champion as a Character and attack him directly, then he reverts to being a normal member of his unit, instead of forcing an opponent to hit him as if he was a character.
So if I were to flow chart it, my thought process thinks something like this:
1- Check to see which models are in Base contact
2- Check to see which models they are in Base contact with.
3- Models in base contact must direct their attacks against models they are in base contact with, including Characters.
4- Models in base contact with both models from different units, or Characters within the unit in base contact, have the option of choosing who they swing against.
***So their options to this point are to hit the Character or the Unit***
5- IF they choose to hit the unit, check to if any Champions are in base contact.
6- Choose to direct from models in base contact with the Champion, or swing against the unit
IT is a part of. (Optional)
7- Roll Dice
8- Remove Casualties from the rear of the unit. Directed attacks are assigned to the models specified, excess wounds caused by these Directed attacks are lost.
EXAMPLE (of rules up to this point)
The front rank of Slayers is now all upgraded to Champions. All Slayers still have to direct their attacks against against models they're in base contact with per normal. The one Champion Slayer in base contact with the Character still has to attack the Character, etc. Units A and B however can choose to assign their attacks against the Slayer Champions like Characters which would limit casualties to the front rank of Slayers. Or they can choose to treat them as normal RnF members of the unit they're attached to, which unlike characters, they revert to being if the opponent chooses not to swing at them.
I hope that covers everything, and I REALLY appreciate the time anyone takes to read this. Especially Artee, since you gave me a reference point to look / re-look at. I guess what I need is a rule that Im missing or an
FAQ, that clarifies that Champions must have attacked directed against them like characters if they're the only model in base contact. I think NOT being forced to direct attacks against them falls more in line with how the normal Casualty rules work. If I have a unit made up entirely of Champions (which I can do), then against shooting attacks, I treat the them as a normal unit. I'm not seeing how this changes once we get into combat without permission to do so. Sure I can 'Look Out Sir' but I'm still removing a Champion. This unit would be great once it got into combat if my opponent is forced to hit the Champions because of the Deathblow rule alone. Since I'm not seeing anything that forces my opponent to strike against them, then I don't want to take more than a handful, since he can just ignore them and swing against the unit, then the extra wounds carry over onto the Champions anyways.
Thanks to everyone.
