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Ok so I have a black Templar force purely for horde, flamers and missiles, but I was wondering if some of my units are cost effective or not, so hear is what I got.

HQ

1 Chapter master - with jump pack and power axe
1 Emperors Champion

Troops

5 Crusaders - 1 flamer, all chain swords and bolt pistols - put with Emperors Champion
5 Crusaders - 1 flamer and 1 missile, boltguns
5 Crusaders - 1 flamer and 1 missile, boltguns
5 Crusaders - all boltguns

Elites
(I know I'm over the limit on these but this is a list of what I have)

5 Terminators - all storm bolsters
5 Sternguard veterans - (1 combi melta, flamer, melta), 1 power fist
5 Vanguard veterans - 1 plasma pistol and power axe, rest are SS/TH
1 Dreadnought - Fist and assault cannon
1 Dreadnought - fist and Multi melta

Fast Attack

None

Heavy

Land Raider

Dedicated Transport

Razorback - Twin lascannon ( for my Emperors Champion)

That's what I have I just want to know what to get, tactics and how to improve my list.

I play nid and what really destroys me is Tig + GravAmp Devs + Chapter Master. Support them with Rhinos and tac marines to keep the melee swarms off your back and you're sitting in a good position. Also, the DevCent Hurricane bolters do good work against infantry swarms that get too close. Put some Sternguard (get 5 more for the full 10) in a drop pod for cleanup crew and another 10man tac squad in a pod for your first DPod assault, and yeesh. Rough stuff.

Effective nid threat range is about 24", so given that, Cent Devs are just too good at wiping out MCs. The rest of what most nids bring can be effectively classified as bolter fodder.

Tyranids: the one codex where the bolter means something.

If you don't want an allied Libby or Tau commander, try Grav Centurions (Grav/Missile) in a Land Raider. That unit will limit his whole play style as he struggles to avoid having two MCs a turn killed or crippled.

Bolter work just fine vs Nids, so I'd say your Crusader squads are too small... I'd try to fit in the Dreads for Monster Hunting. What I'd be afraid of is getting swept away by a turn 2 Tsunami of Nids. The Landraider is nice, only a Big Bug (Monsterous creature) can harm it

I'm not used to seeing Black Templars with small squads, that is tweaking my melon....but you gotta go with what you have...

Martel732 wrote:
Tyranids: the one codex where the bolter means something.

Unless you play competitive nids where it wounds everything on a 6 unless it's disposable gants...

Things that always get me are Lascannon devs, Grav Centurions, Combi-Grav Sternguard, Air Cav (Storm Talons/Ravens) and a Shield Eternal, Iron Hands, Thunder Hammer Biker Chapter Master leading some Combi-Grav Bikers. 1 Single TFC is also a good investment to clear gants off objectives.

Bug-hunting is tricky, but doable. Remembering to use your mobility is a key issue, with lateral strafing being quite possible with certain units. Some key notes:

Fat Tac squads of 10 men are grand, geared up with a flamer and a heavy bolter. Two or three of these, especially if in Rhinos, give small bugs fits. Termagant squads die in droves to this, and that's your primary scoring troops target. Usually you want to go in combat squads, with the heavy bolter team hanging back and the sarge + flamer in the Rhino to have some pushback. Few things are as pain-inducing as a Rhino rolling up beside a unit of 'gants and just laying down a flamer template, safe and secure in the knowledge that the armor might only be 11, but that's still more than Str 4+6.

Raw dakka also serves well for flyswatting, with sheer volume of fire knocking flying Hive Tyrants out of the sky. It ain't easy hitting on a 6+, but once you ground them, they can be handled.

Assault bikes are terrors against small bugs, when taken in the basic heavy bolter kit, but you have to learn to strafe, not advance. Most people are used to meltabikes and driving towards the enemy to get in shots. This is a Bad Thing against bugs, who'll throw bodies on top of you in melee and tie you down. Instead, you want to keep posting them at 24" away, getting off those three twin-linked bolter shots in addition to the 9 heavy bolter sprays. It adds up quick, and once the small bugs are down (use the tacs first, obviously, with attack bikes on cleanup) you can even start hammering away at the big guys. Str 5 against T6 SV 3 isn't the best, but again, raw volume of fire will wear them down. A flying Hive Tyrant that gets grounded is at 3 wounds, and a single attack bike spray will usually only do 1 wound, but sometimes the dice just decide that it's a Tyrant's day to die.

Landspeeders are another weapon in your pool. Heavy Bolter + Heavy Flamer is the way to go, and like the attack bikes, you want to post out whenever possible, strafing from 24" or more. Speeders are there to dink away at squads that are thinned out by earlier fire, counter-attack units that close in on your tacs, and always have the option of a 12" move followed by dropping a heavy flamer template, which is just murderous... an entire squad of Genestealers can be roasted on a 2+, for instance, while the heavybolter allows you to push past the edges and take out support units, like Biovores, with ease.

(I suggest two HB/HF land speeders, each an individual unit, and a unit of 3 attack bikes with HB for yoru Fast Attack selections, by the by.)

Against the big bugs, grav is the new hotness, but you'll do better with old school... Five man Devastator squads with four missile launchers has been a Thing since the 80's and continues today. Aside from the Tervigon, every single model in the Tyranid force is wounded on a 2+ with no save when hit by Krak missiles, with a single salvo stripping about 3 wounds a turn off of the big guys. Take a Carnifex down to 1 wound and a Tac squad can finish it off. Concentrate fire on a Tervigon and remove it from the board in one turn if it's not taking cover saves (And if it keeps a wound, well, that's what the cleanup crew in the attack bikes and land speeders are for) ... Two of these missile teams is enough to wreck big bugs, but you want to keep them safe; yet another reason you want the missile launchers is the 48" range instead of the short-range grav guns. You can stay back in a corner and release rockets all day long, just choose your tarets carefully (And use LOS-blocking cover to channel them towrds the main body of your line.) ... Oh, and if you see Warriors, Krak delivers instant death, 3 wounds be damned. One unit of 4 missiles can wipe out a unit of 3 Warriors on average rolls, doing just terrible things to synapse. Can't do *that* with Gravguns!

The elusive dakka Terminator squad, with four storm bolters and ana ssault cannon, comes into its own against Tyranid. Once again, the sheer volume of fire does just awful things to swarms an can whittle away at monstrous creatures as well... the Assault Cannon earning gold stars for the latter. WIth the ability to move 6" and keep firing a dozen shots downrange, you can strip the paint off of anything you see, from taking that last wound on a MC that survived the missiles to whittling away at a grounded Hive Tyrant to just evaporating a squad of 'gaunts who were safe from your gun line but not when you advanced and took the angle. With a pair of Power Fist attacks each (plus possibly a charge!), they MURDER any monstrous creature thatc omes near; most Tyranid MCs are kitted for Dakka right now, not melee, and facing 3 attacks from a Hive Tyrant, or the same from a Carnifex that only has WS 3, means a couple of noble losses (Goodbye, Sarge! Somebody gets promoted!) but a very, very dead MC.

Your army commander is tricky. Every Monstrous Creature can kill you dead with a Smash, and you only survive on a 4+ invulnerable. This means that a monstrous creature melee is THE LAST place you want your commander to be. You want a supporting role, hanging back and shooting when possible. The default is some kind of combi-grav, but might I suggest the humble Storm Bolter? It lets you stay on the move, keep a steady dakka downfield, and if you have the points, you can take a command squad with another 5 Storm Bolters, giving you a light Terminator squad-like fire pattern. Surprisingly effective, but I've never seen anyone do it other than myself. You can use plasma here (backed by an Apothecary, thanks!) for a unit that murders Monstrous Creatures as well, natch, but the cost will be much higher.

Overall, the Marines have every tool in the box that you need to deal with Tyranid. You just have to watch out for traps, like over-enhancing squads (volume, not quality, of fire is needed here) or taking Land Raiders: Yes, they wound MC on a 2+, but only 2 wounds a turn for the HUGE cost isn't worth it, AV 14 or no.

Point level?

Flamers on gants, anything that auto wounds MCs on 2s. Marines have lots of choices, plenty of range and good durability. FMCs are the only real option Nids have against most marine lists, so you need a quad gun.

lots of flamers & heavy bolters

All the tactics stated above seem good, but don't forget aa. As a nid player myself I've gone from 2 FMCs to 5 over the last 2 months. And with skyblight now available I'll be running 8-9. So don't forget your aa. Nids strength is in our FMCs.

You want to cause some problems, take land raider redeemers and vengeance batteries. Fill out whatever else you want with interceptor or volume of fire. You get some durable AV 14 fortifications with AA guns built in. Grab a network with some more beautiful guns, and play dirty. Don't have Stronghold Assault on me right now, but I believe it is something like 2 sets of vengeance batteries can be taken per network, so max that out to taste, bring the double quad fortification, and place it forward to your position. Leave your cheapest troop unit in the redeemer for late game, and just have every single person run turn 1 into the fortifications. You'll sit there in extremely well dug in cover, with plenty of AA. The land raiders push up, torching the few ground troops in their side, and then you drop those cheapies out for late game scoring.