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I finally have all three heavy carnifexes, and this last week I tried out a 1250 list with two of them... this week, the league goes up to 1500, so I'm adding the third... just for fun, I fired up excel to see what else I could fit in, while still keeping a decent number of stealers.. here's what I came up with:

HQ-
1x Broodlord (Carapace, Sacs, Hooks, Implant Attack) - 105 + 6x Retinue (Carapace, hooks) - 126

Elites-
1x Carnifex (Senses, 2x TL Devourers) - 113
1x Carnifex (Senses, 2x TL Devourers) - 113

Troops-
6x Genestealers (Carapace, Scuttlers) - 138
6x Genestealers (Carapace, Scuttlers) - 138
6x Genestealers (Carapace, Scuttlers) - 138
6x Genestealers (Carapace, Scuttlers) - 138

Heavy-
1x Carnifex (Senses, VC, BS, Chitin) - 163
1x Carnifex (Senses, VC, BS, Chitin) - 163
1x Carnifex (Senses, VC, BS, Chitin) - 163

Total: 1498

Some thoughts/questions:

Scuttlers? Worth it in this list? I could drop them in favor of a few more bodies, and just run them behind a shield wall of carnifexes... that means moving my gunfexes up though, which isn't what I generally like to do with them. Thoughts?

Chitin? Worth it on the heavy fexes? In most of my games so far, the gunfexes either die a horrible overkilled death (along with the rest of my army), or never take a wound. Of course, the times I don't have it, I wish I had it, and the times I have it, and the 5th wound is never an issue, I wish I had spent the points elsewhere. Interested to know what other people think.

Thank you for the mature and enlightening reply. It totally relates to the thread topic.

I think it looks pretty good.

- Carapace on the broodlord is useless due to the majority save rule. Its also useless in CC as anything foolish enough to try to tangle with that monster is going to have some sort of powerweapon.

- Scuttlers are well worth it in your kind of lists as the sooner the stealers are in combat, the less chance they have of getting shot to death.

- Chitin is one of the best upgrades for a fex. You'll thank that extra wound as an enemy pours round after round into a T6 5 wound monster.

You never told us how the all scuttling list worked for you.

I'd be interested to hear.

I think you've got your answer already.

4 wounds = death

5 wounds = opponent doesn't even try to kill them

So, what do you want those Carifexes to do?  Soak fire away from other things, or stay alive so that they are able to lay down long-ranged covering fire the whole game?  The answer is totally dependant on your tactics.

Kev

Thanks guys, for the true replies

Buddha: You're mostly right on the carapace for the lord... though having a 3+ against those odd one-off saves is nice. However, if I dropped the carapace, what would I then use those points for?

Yak: I've been having mostly good luck with the scuttlers. Still having problems against the highly shooty armies, and the multi-falcon eldar armies. Overall, I think they really helped my game, but as I add more carnis, I'm wondering if it is such a good idea to put them so far ahead of the rest of the army.

Kwade: That's not really what I meant, but you're right... alot of opponents simply give up on trying to kill the carnifex, especially if they haven't put wounds on it by turn 3.. I think the 5 wounds just makes them that more survivable. As to what I want them to do, it depends on the terrain, and opponent. Obviously against a vehicle heavy army, I want them to be fire support and blow stuff up.. other games I will want them to soak up enemy fire... and with the dakkafexes being cheaper, and closer to the enemy, I think they may be viable units to distract the enemy. This last weekend I played against an ork army that was 95% infantry, and simply couldn't deal with the numbers in combat.. I think in that case, the dakkafexes would be incredibly handy.

Thanks for the input so far, guys!

I think the fact that you have 3 identical Gunfexes means you could theoretically do without the Chitin and not suffer too many consequences.

Although like you said, what are you going to do with 45 points in this army? The only two good options I can think of are a single Ravener or a couple more stealers. Neither option is really that great.

I think I'd stick with the sure-fire Chitin myself. . .and I still think a Flying Tyrant would be better than that Broodlord, but whatever.

Have no worries, I fully intend for the flyrant to show up in my 1850 list I wanted to fit him into the 1500 list, but couldn't without losing too much other stuff. I want to keep the genestealer theme, so I want to keep the broodlord, even though he can be useless in alpha missions.

If you can free up about a dozen points, consider that a tyrant with nothing but enhanced senses, toxin sacs, and twin linked devourers only comes out to a few points more than a dakkafex and is substantially more effective at shooting infantry. The extra S on the 'fex does help with taking out light armor, so one of each would probably be a perfect mix.

With the hypothetical 45 freed pts from removing the Reinforced Chitin, you'd have enough pts to add Flesh hooks to all Scuttling Genes, plus add another one to the retinue, or get Spine Banks to all 3 Gunfex + other tidbits.

Buddha: You're mostly right on the carapace for the lord... though having a 3+ against those odd one-off saves is nice. However, if I dropped the carapace, what would I then use those points for?

Two Words: Acid Maw. Rerolled wounds + High Initiative = no return swings.

Scuttlers - The only thing that makes the stealer horde playable. It is a keeper.

Give your brood lord a bigger posse. I know my priority will be to swing some plasma/las/melta weapons around to get him first and second turns. The more bodies he can throw in the way, the better.

What do you think about tails on carnifexes? The extra attacks on succesive turns might be worth it.

Thanks for the further replies. Let's see, where to start..

Coelomate: I'm not a big fan of the devourer tyrant... and I don't have a model for a walking tyrant anyways. Dreadnoughts are real popular around my parts, and there are lots of AV12 vehicles.. I need the S6 that the dakkafex offers. It also provides more reliable wounds against MEQ, imo.

Kodo: Flesh hooks on the stealers is tempting, because I usually lose one stealer when assaulting into cover... but spine banks on the gunfexes? The gunfexes will pretty much be sticking to my DZ, unless they need to move to hold loot counters. I think the extra wound on each gunfex is a better us of points.

Corum: Acid maw is nearly useless... the broodlord is wounding most things on 2+ anyways, and it only works in the first round of combat. As for the larger retinue.. he needs a small retinue so that he can hide behidn terrain better when infiltrating, and to also keep cost down when infiltrating isn't allowed. Tails on gunfexes? If my gunfexes are getting assaulted, I've pretty much already lost the game.

I tried the list out on wednesday, and it did pretty well. Unfortunately, we rolled an omega mission: I got both dakkafexes second turn, 1 gunfex third turn, and the last two gunfexes on turn 4... so that kind sucked. The game was a draw by 15 points. Gonna try it out again this weekend against a broader spectrum of players, and see how it does in alpha/gamma.

Well, today I got some more games in, and on the whole, I have to say I am happy with the list performed. I only got two games in, but one of them counted as two seperate games (team game, 2vs2).

here's how it went down:

Game 1: Myself and Foda_Bett (Godzilla) vs. Armoured Company and Ulthwe eldar.

The AC was IIRC, 9 russes, two of which were demolishers, 1 was an exterminator. All had heavy bolter sponsons, some had lascannon hull mounts.
Ulthwe had 3x guardian squads, each with starcannons, 2x wraithlords with brightlances, 1x falcon with brightlance, 8x or 10x banshee squad with wave serpent with TL starcannons, and a 5 or 6 man seer council with all the good fixins. He also had a 6 man ranger squad.

The mission was Secure and Control, Omega, Nightfight. There three loot counters, and each was worth 1000pts (since each side technically had 3000pts). Foda and I won the game by 1000 points, as we held one uncontested loot counter. By the end of the game, all but 2 russes were immobilized or destroyed. Foda only lost 1 dakkafex, the flying tyrant, and his rippers.. I lost a dakkafex, and every single genestealer... though the broodlord did manage to kill a wraithlord on his own, before being pwned by a banshee exarch that had piled into him earlier.

Game 2 was vs. space marines. Mission was Take And Hold, Gamma. The enemy deployed in a typical gunline formation, sticking to cover where possible. The Commander + Librarian command squad infiltrated behind some forests... my broodlord "infiltrated" right into my deployment zone, to provide synaopse, just in case the librarian decided to try and fear of dark me. This was un-needed, as my scout move took my troop stealers up 6", and then I got first turn, moving another 6" up, and fleeted, bringing three genestealers well within charge range of the command squad. Shooting saw a predator destroyed, and two pieplates placed, taking one squad below half, and pinned. Assault took place, and I killed almost the entire command squad, except for the commander and vet. sgt. who fled. I consolidated and took cover in the forest. From here on, it was mostly me moving up, taking out another tactical squad in combat, him shooting me, and my carnifexes dropping acouple mroe pieplates, and destorying his venerable dread. He called the game at the bottom of turn 4. he had managed to kill two broods of genestealers, and a dakkafex.

I'm liking the list alot, and it really hellped me out against the armored company. Now to figure out what to add for 1850...

I'm liking the list alot, and it really hellped me out against the armored company. Now to figure out what to add for 1850...

For that kind of list, I suggest you to add a cheap Flyrant and 2 raveners. Fast and deadly in hth.

For 1850, I definently agree on the flyrant, and maybe just add a few more stealers onto the board, either in the retinue or in some of the troops slots.

Did you end up dropping the chitin off the gunfexes? If not, and you did take that off, I think you might be able to add a modest to cheap flyrant and an entire 5th slot of 'stealers if I'm doing my maths right.

Hmn... well, I definitely want the flyrant.. so many situations where it would have been very valuable in many of my games.

What I was thinking of adding:

Cheap flyrant with +1`WS and toxin sacs
1 stealer to each troop brood (so 4 broods of 7)
An elite slot CC carnifex.. I have the model for it, and don't want to waste it. It would be +1 WS, Toxic Miasma, flesh hooks, and 2x scytals, for 114 points. It's not too expensive that it is a point sink, but still carries a good punch, hitting MEQ on 3+, wounding on 2+ with 5 attacks on the charge.... I dunno, just an idea i've been kicking around. I could add a third dakkafex, instead.

1) Drop the Broodlord out for the flying Tyrant (seems like I've said that a few times).
2) Take 2 more units of scuttling Stealers.


The stealers will do a lot better consistently than the CC fex. I also wouldn't put any more points into units that are going to be fubar'd by Escalation.

36 Scuttling Stealers should be able to take out most anything that starts on the board in Escalation (unless you are facing an all infantry army), and your Gunfexes will roll on the board just in time to start dealing with the enemy armor that shows up.

I think your Gunfexes and 2 Dakkafexes 'scale up' nicely to 1,850 but the Stealer theme starts to suffer as the enemy has more guns on the board to wipe them out before they reach combat. That's why you need to focus on putting more points into the stealers in an 1,850 point list or get rid of the scuttling stealer theme all-together.

I us<st1 =" ">ed a similar list less the brood lord, add a Flyrant.
I think it breaks down to:
Flyrant
Walking VC/Twin Devourer Tyrant
2 Gunfex
3 Dakkafex
3 squads of 6 Genestealers

I have only one game with it, a 3 Wraithlord Beil Tan, in with which I pretty much cream<st1 ="">ed</st1> him. I am shock<st1 =" ">ed=""></st1> how effective the Dakkafex's are, wow. They are an excellent  match up will with anything less the heaviest of vehicles.

I just walk<st1 ="">ed</st1> the Zilla line forward for a couple of turns, then fann<st1 =" ">ed </st1>out and let the Stealers and Flyrant have their fun, really kind of neat to watch.

I am also very curious how it will do over 1,500 as the opponent will get more shots. Under 1,500 it is very difficult to have enough guns to take down the Zilla line, unless you know it is coming.</st1>