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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 22:17:10
Subject: What is the difference?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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What is the definition of a "skirmish" game? How is that different from other miniature games? Does that just mean a game that is faster to play? What would be some examples of "skirmish" type games as opposed to other games? Battletech? 40k? Warmachine?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 22:21:14
Subject: What is the difference?
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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A skirmish game is typically small in size, say a couple of squads, maybe a bit more. Inifinity is a good example of a skirmish game. 40K started as one but over the years has increased in size to the point where it's now more akin to a full-scale war than a skirmish.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/27 22:21:29
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 22:22:41
Subject: What is the difference?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Faster is more a consequence of it being a skirmish game, rather than a defining characteristic.
There's no real hard and fast rules, but a skirmish game will have a low model count (typically 10 or less I'd say) and will treat each model as an individual.
Infinity is probably the best example of a skirmish game right now, Warmachine is probably more squad level, 40K has aspirations of being platoon level, but is hamstrung by still being a skirmish/squad level game at heart.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 09:22:40
Subject: What is the difference?
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Dipping With Wood Stain
Welwyn Garden City, Herts
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If I was looking for a defining line I'd say that a skirmish game was one where you 'moved' (and fired and took actions for) each model independently as opposed to as a member of a squad/ regiment/ mass of troops.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 10:25:58
Subject: What is the difference?
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Calculating Commissar
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I'd go with that definition as well; Skirmish you control individual characters independently with their own stats/status tracking.
So Infinity/Necromunda/Malifaux are skirmish games.
Whereas in 40K/Warmachine you control them in squads, so they'd be a squad level game.
As a side effect of being a skirmish game, they tend to have low model counts (generally down to about 4 and up to about 20) and tend to play fairly quickly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 12:14:11
Subject: What is the difference?
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Hacking Proxy Mk.1
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Yep. Games can generally be broken down into Skirmish, Platoon and Company level.
Skirmish is each trooper activates (moves, shoots, draws LoS, etc) on their own.
Platoon you activate your guys per squad.
Company you activate multiple squads at ones (although the only examples of this I can think of are 15mm like Epic 40k or Historicals stuff, usually the 'squads' are several stands of models all bunched up).
Generally the larger you get the less each individual model matters too. In skirmish a model is exactly where that model is standing for purposes of LoS and terrain/cover.
In Platoon it can be a little more vague, some games will play as individuals some will say either the squad has LoS/is in cover/etc or they squad is not.
Once you get to company level you usually have entire squads of models standing on the same base so it really doesn't matter if 1 guy is out of cover.
Then of course you have 40k, which as Azreal pointed out, is trying to work with one foot in Skirmish and one in Platoon. Which is... odd to say the least and counter intuitive. Activating a squad but having to measure and move each model then draw LoS individually is just wasting time. (And frankly I'd say it's a downright stupid to worry about that in a game that also has artillery as on board pieces as well as flyers.)
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Fafnir wrote:Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 12:52:14
Subject: What is the difference?
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Brigadier General
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You all are close, but not quite.
The technical wargaming definition of a skirmish game is any wargame game where one miniature equals one soldier, also referred to as "man to man". The term has been used by historical gamers to differentiate games representing a "skirmish" (brief and unplanned engagement) or a very small part of a larger battle at a 1:1 (miniature:soldier) scale from games that attempted to recreate entire battles, usually resulting in one miniature representing multiple soldiers.
Today the term has become used -often by sci-fi and fantasy games where proportional representation is not an issue or priority- to describe games that are very small in scope (usually less than 20 miniatures a side) or specifically for games where each miniature activates and acts individually. Unfortunately this variety of uses sometimes renders the term as vague as the "mass battle" term that get's bandied about by companies who want their games to sound impressive. Still, by the original definition 40k, WHFB, WM, KoW, etc are all "skirmish" games. Also, many platoon level (around 50 soldiers, give-or-take, depending on nationality) games would be "skirmish" games.
Complicating the issue is the fact that for most wars post-vietnam and into the sci-fi setting, the actual numbers of soldiers/units involved is often quite low. Thus recreating an actual engagement in the Afghanistan conflict, might only use the same number (or fewer) miniatures as a Medieval "skirmish". Is the engagement a "skirmish" or a "battle"? Would you call it a Platoon Skirmish? etc... Additionally, 6mm and other small scales make 1:1 representation possible for large historical battles, but the term "skirmish" is not used for these type of games.
I personally use the term "Warband Skirmish" for games where each mini is independent and the scope is very small. That's not an official term by any means, just something that seems to get the point across. A few other examples of such a "warband skirmish" game would be Mercs, Deadzone, Song of Blades and Heroes, In the Emperor's Name and Wreck Age. Supersystem and other goalsystem games have squads, but only for "henchmen" all other characters are individuals and activate independently and the scope is fairly limited, so it might also qualify.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/04/28 13:49:09
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