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Anyone think the change to a few Universal Special rules in 7th might make the Banshees play worthy? (at least in friendly games. I don't think a single tournament player would run assault eldar)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is of course assuming they change universal special rules (which they usually do)

What changes are you talking about?

well if they changed the acrobat rule or changed fleet (again) with the upcoming 7th edition rulebook. Make it so units with acrobat can assault out of non assault vehicles or something like that. They might be a worthy close combat unit with that rule.

So you want us to speculate about changes that might be made in an as yet unconfirmed new rulebook as they pertain to one specific unit?

Bit of a narrow topic for a thread isn't it?

It seems pretty heated to be unconfirmed:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592379.page

I am kinda hoping that they change a USR that makes them somewhat usable. I'm not talking to be a godly assault unit but at least viable so that people who love the model would be able to use it without being ridiculed for it.

I don't see an issue with the Banshees as they are currently. They are great assault troops. I think the issue lies more in assault vehicles.
I just don't see why a unit cannot assault out of a vehicle that is designed for that purpose, especially with units getting to fire in defense. This is why I feel that the wave serpent shield should have an abstract rule that allows troops to assault out of it. The fluff could just state that the shield is fired right before they disembark, stunning their opponents and allowing the assault to go in. This way the serpent gets nerfed and Eldar assault troops become viable.

Banshees would be playable if they change the rules for assaulting out of vehicles so you can (ie you have to assault out of a stationary transport would be fine).

They still will be poor as they are Str 3 and AP3. They pay for power swords but the only targets that power swords are worthwhile against are T4. When you are wounding on 5's you really need something like doom or you need to have a lot more attacks than enemy models. In 5ed banshees had guaranteed doom and could ignore terminator armour. This meant they could go after expensive, very low model count units (terminators) and be almost guaranteed the kill with doom.

The biggest problem with Banshees is a lack of delivery method, that's not going to be fixed without the Eldar either gaining an assault vehicle or changes being made to the Wave Serpent.

That said, their secondary issues can be fixed.

I think all Banshees need to at least be competent in assault is assault grenades and the ability to survive at least a turn outside of a transport.

To that end, my suggestion would be to switch the ability of the Banshee Mask so that instead of reducing the enemies' initiative, it gives the Banshees assault grenades and prevents enemy units within 6'' of the Banshees from firing overwatch. They're I5, so even without debuffing enemy initiative they'll be going first most of the time anyway.

I'd also change Acrobatic's ability so that instead of giving +3'' to run moves, it gives them Move Through Cover and a 5++ in melee.

Or you could make Acrobatic make it so that banshees treat all vehicles as assault vehicles. This would allow them to assault out of the serpent making them decent. Also the exarch with the executioner would probably what you would have to do to make them worthwhile. The increase of STR for the attacks are what saves the unit. Its unfortunate that they are the only good piece of a banshee unit while the rest are there to soak wounds up and maybe kill stuff just for the bonus of it, adding onto the kills delivered by the exarch.

Interesting, and quite possible given the recent rumors. Can't say that I think we need another powerful eldar unit, but it would be nice change to have the gak being beaten out of me rather than being shot down.

Banshees are terrible for a number of reasons.

Low strength means they are wounding on 5+ for anything they would actually want to assault

They are rather weak at T3 Sv4+ and fall to a stiff breeze

There is no delivery method to get them where they need to go and acrobat fails to deliver

They don't have grenades and this is what really annoyed me besides the lack of assault vehicles. How are banshees going at the same initiative as guard hiding in a bush?

Like every other melee unit in codex eldar they just fail on many levels.

Edit: I suppose I should add something constructive. Banshees need a delivery method be it additional rules for acrobat to treat vehicles as assault or charging after running. They really need grenades, and honestly they need to be more than just an exarch delivery buss. So either +1S on the charge or extra attacks or something to get that damage in.

This type of change needs to affect all assault units, not just the assault units from the most powerful shooty army around.

Here's hoping CSM gains some benefit.

If the Banshee Mask counts as assault grenades (gets the target to keep their heads down), the unit is partially fixed.

The Wave Serpent does not really have the right chassis for assaulting from. The door is at the back, and with no windows, the passengers cannot plan their assault. The Eldar vehicles can take Vectored Engines though, which lets them swing their back-end around (long) after disembarkation.
It's a pity, but fluff-wise, I can't see it happening.

Even with a seer assigned to the unit, they get slowed down while they get buffed.

But, in 6th, some horrible nerfs to cc made a mockery of a lot of units.

With a 6.5 update, codex rules like acrobatic and banshee mask are unlikely to be changed. We'll have to hope for hints like changes to transports, the assault mechanics or fleet, which are all core elements not specifically covered in the Eldar codex.