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so I picked up the new army book the other day for wood elves and I have to say that the one thing that really drew me to the army in the first place, dryads and tree men, seem to have lost a lot of what made them interesting in the last book such as spites and the skirmisher rule and I feel like now, more than ever, I have to take elves if I want the army to work. is anyone else finding this and does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep elves out of my army but still have it as a viable force

Punctuation please D:

Skirmisher gone was a very good move as Skirmishing sucks for melee units in 8th. Like really, really sucks. The nerf to the stats, however, brought them down.

What struck me as odd as that Dryads didn't get Scaly Skin of any kind (a 6+ would have been fine in my book), especially since the other Forest Spirits have it.

But maybe I'm just expecting things to make sense.

If you take elves out you've not got much;

Lord/Hero
Durthu
Treeman Ancient
Drycha
Branchwraith

Core:
Dryad

Special:
Treekin

Rare;
Treeman
Great Eagle

In that you've basically got no ranged save for spells from the lord/hero section. You've also got very little variety for choice within the army itself, very little flexibility.

It's also nearly the same as before, only now you've 2 more treemen types to choose from (granted 1 is unique). The Sprites were neat ,but are basically spells or upgrade choices to the model so you can likely simulate the same effect with WE or main rule book magical equipment choices.


Otherwise I suspect that its very hard to keep the WE out of the army. They WE models bring speed and ranged attack options that you'll likely need for a well rounded force. All trees is slow; strong but slow plus vulnerable to any fire based spells or attacks.

You could probably do a strong core of Dryads, but they'd likely want some support from cavalry which could be used to distract or otherwise tie-up key opposing units until the trees can make it into combat. Eagles would also be important to help with this. The risk is that without archers and faster troops its going to take longer to get into combat so you've got to tie your opponent up.

yeah that really struck me as odd as there seemed to be no reason for the -1 to their ward saves :/

I just feel like a lot of flavor has been drained out of the book, that or there has been too much focus put onto the elf section which is a crying shame.

the fact that spites are no longer a thing angers me -.-

bellathrom wrote:
yeah that really struck me as odd as there seemed to be no reason for the -1 to their ward saves :/

I think it was the Dev's idea of "balancing" it as the old one was a 5+ that was lost to magic.

bellathrom wrote:
the fact that spites are no longer a thing angers me -.-

And it makes even less sense when you consider that they made sure to include spites in the Treeman kit!

Tree Spirits are still viable, but not as an entire army. You will have trouble dealing with High saves, with hitting power, with Magic and with Warmachines.

But Treekin are still very good, they work very well in a blob of 3x6 and are a great anvil on their own. But they also benefit greatly from a BSB and magical buffs that a Spellweaver can provide.

Drycha is pretty terrible if you are only assured your single Wood, but taking a Spellweaver with Acorn changes that into D3+1 Woods (Of your choosing!) means her Deepstrike is much more viable to base a list around.

Dryads and Branchwraiths are good, cheap and reasonably durable. Hatred is good and they have 2 attacks each so they are quite good at killing regular infantry. They benefit greatly from a Venom Thicket, it makes Dryads go from 'meh; to AMAZING. Branchwraiths are also great, they are very cheap, have great combat stats AND are level 1 mages. Take 3 and throw Savage Beasts of Horrors on them. Thats 18 Str 7 High Ws/I attacks. Watch things melt.

And it makes even less sense when you consider that they made sure to include spites in the Treeman kit!

yeah, was feeling a little bit sad putting them on the model knowing they'll never do anything :/

that being said I agree with alexisawesome as dryads are still pretty solid, and I must admit that combo hadn't dawned on me think I'll maybe have 3 units of about 20 and a wraith in each one.

pretty dissapointed that the acorn uses up all of your lords magic item points so I'm not sure how much I would bother with it. that being said there's something about only having 1 wood that, as an old wood elf player, rubs me the wrong way

what would you guys say would be the best lord choice for aiding a mostly forest spirit army?

The same lord choice that is best for practically every wood elf army. The Spellweaver.

Firstly, she is a level 4 mage with access to the most lores out of any wizard. The best ones to consider are Shadow, Beasts, High and Dark.

Secondly, she gets a plus 5 to cast when in a Wood. This makes most spells very easy to pull off.

Thirdly, She is the only Lord that can use the Acorns effectively. A Glade Lord with no magic items it useless, but a level 4 mage in a Sisters of the Thorn bodyguard unit will always be helpful, magic item or no.

Fourth, She is a forest spirits only access to lores other then Life (and to an extent beasts).

Fifth, put her on a Unicorn and you can be as close to a forest spirit as you can

Good Luck.

bellathrom wrote:
I just feel like a lot of flavor has been drained out of the book, that or there has been too much focus put onto the elf section which is a crying shame.

You're upset that the Wood Elf book focuses on Wood Elves? Man, what? I understand being let down by the change to the Forest Spirit rules, but the Forest Spirits have always been the garnish in that army, never the entree.

I will admit that Wood Elves without elves is much weaker and harder to do but it is actually more practical than it used to be.

You can now have a level 4 caster without resorting to elves which helps a lot in magic defense.

I have been really impressed by treekin hordes. The treekin sync well with life as the addition of regen, recovering wounds, and bringing models back to life is great on such a resilient unit. Stone to flesh at +4 to Toughness on a T5 unit is also hilarious as even great weapons bounce off the unit. Shield of thorns also helps a treekin units a lot as they can get stuck by large units and having an extra ~5 wounds on every unit in b2b with them can make a difference. The big thing about life mages is that a Lv4 is massively better than a Lv2 or 3 as throne makes every other spell so much better. Life magic is also useful for drawing out dice as the RiP spells both are spells the opponent will not usually want to leave in play.

With the dryad horde the secret sauce is the cheap wraiths. Sadly the cheap wraiths only get really impressive with a beasts mage to buff them up but they still make for a nasty combat block with their plentiful life magic and decent melee ability. The dryads are also cheap enough you can get 30 of them for semi reasonable (not to mention core).

The biggest problem with the no elves wood elves is that warmachines suddenly become terrifying murder machines capable of decimating any chance at victory. Great eagles are not bad at dealing with them but I am really impressed with our scout archers (all varieties) for this purpose, also teleporting from woods to woods is pretty awesome.

I guess in some ways that is what might be the "problem" is that the wood elf components became so interesting in the new book with several game changing items (acorn being a big one) whereas the forest spirits mostly just became cheaper and more rounded but at the cost of not being scary without synergies. I think a forest spirit list with a simple Lv4 beasts spellweaver w/ acorn elf becomes much more interesting as you now have 1d3+1 forests and the beasts lore to starting creating synergies. Drycha can start popping treemen down field, branchwraiths become scary melee monsters, and your large units can start dealing serious damage. You can even deal with warmachines with your eagles before your treemen wake up (not necessarily a recommended tactic but useful at times).

 SkaerKrow wrote:

bellathrom wrote:
I just feel like a lot of flavor has been drained out of the book, that or there has been too much focus put onto the elf section which is a crying shame.

You're upset that the Wood Elf book focuses on Wood Elves? Man, what? I understand being let down by the change to the Forest Spirit rules, but the Forest Spirits have always been the garnish in that army, never the entree.

yes but the wood elves that it's focusing on seem to be nothing more than a mix of high and dark elves. most of the kindreds have gone and everything seems to be a a parody of the last 2 elf books. the fact that we didnt get a gimmick chariot amazes me :/ not to mention they had some much opportunity to include not elf things to make the book really unique but just didnt......

AlexisAwesome, that sounds pretty good and I'm looking forward to converting her ^^