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A continuation of a previous thread.... Some people favor Hasbro buying GW, some are against it.

Which begs the question:
If GW Was Sold What Company Do You WANT To Buy The Company?

Closer to an essay question than a true poll....

Ford Motor Company. Should produce interesting results.

I'm going with Fantasy Flight Games.

If they took GWs production facilities and studio I think they would do the best with it. Their RPGs aren't perfect but between them and X wing I am confident they can do a much better job creating clear, fair rules. Their work with x wing really speaks for itself in that regard.

I've never gotten the sense that suits have hampered creativity with them like the current design studio at GW and FFG have a history of listening to what their fans want with things like open playtesting for their RPGs.

And lastly they are already well involved with the 40k fluff. Its actually gotten to the point where I feel FFG and us, the fans, are on one page, wanting the deep, dark universe we got into the game with, while GW and BL are now on a completely different page, filling codexs and novellas with heroic figures triumphing against all odds every time.

Maybe you should list a few companies that could actually come close to purchasing GW, eh? Because you've only got one listed.

 cincydooley wrote:
Maybe you should list a few companies that could actually come close to purchasing GW, eh? Because you've only got one listed.

See that 'Other (Explain)'?

So, you want another option... Explain.

Personally, I would like it to be Fantasy Flight, but suspect that it is going to be none, and the IP to be broken up and sold separately... and at some point in the future, not this year or next.

I think that the next most likely is none - and the IP is allowed to die.

I... do not think that any software company is likely to buy the whole kit 'n' kaboodle.

I do not think that any film studio will buy it. Period.

I did not vote what I expect, I voted what I want.... Which is Fantasy Flight.

Hasbro is the only company that I think has the resources and might have the desire - so if you wonder why it is the only one on the list that might... that is why.

But if you feel differently... Explain.

The Auld Grump

I just think it's silly to wish list companies that don't have the resources to actually buy them.

Disney will swoop in and buy it.

If it were to happen, I'd like to see the IP go to a model making company, rather than a games company... someone with a bit more money invested in cutting edge plastics moulding technology, just because it would be interesting to see what they could do with GW's designs.

 cincydooley wrote:
I just think it's silly to wish list companies that don't have the resources to actually buy them.

And I think that it is silly to make a claim, then fail to back it up.

*Shrug*

So, I am guessing that you didn't have any substantial remark to make, then?

You just wanted to complain?

The Auld Grump

Fantasy Flight, because they're from Minnesota and so am I. And yeah, good game designs and stuff, suppose that's important too.

Likely candidates are Hasbro and Disney, who seem to be monopolizing nerdom. PP does their own thing, probably doesn't want anything to do with GW or its IP.

The more interesting question I feel is who fills GW's shoes if they do down? And I guarantee it would be who you think it will be.

Bandai. We'd get Master Grade Riptides for half the price of an actual Riptide.

 EmilCrane wrote:
Fantasy Flight, because they're from Minnesota and so am I. And yeah, good game designs and stuff, suppose that's important too.

Likely candidates are Hasbro and Disney, who seem to be monopolizing nerdom. PP does their own thing, probably doesn't want anything to do with GW or its IP.

The more interesting question I feel is who fills GW's shoes if they do down? And I guarantee it would be who you think it will be.

I think when GW goes down we'll be left with 4 or 5 other companies all stepping in to take 10-20% of their remaining market share and instead of one company holding the monopoly as a dozen smaller ones chip away at it we'll see real competition in the market again, which should be good for us, the consumers.

As unpopular as it is the think, GW is fine. They don't need anyone to buy them.
They are a great company from a business stand point. 7th Ed. is an answer to a business problem.
Poor fiscal year in 2013, not as good of a Q1 as they expected so how do you fix it? Release a new rule book in Q2 and a new starter set in Q3.

If any company gets bought in the next few years or goes out of business it will be Privateer Press before Games Workshop in all honesty.

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:


If any company gets bought in the next few years or goes out of business it will be Privateer Press before Games Workshop in all honesty.

Interesting. Have any evidence/logic to back that up? (and I don't mean that in a snarky way, as a private company PP doesn't have to release financial information, so I'm curious if you actually know something).

 jonolikespie wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
Fantasy Flight, because they're from Minnesota and so am I. And yeah, good game designs and stuff, suppose that's important too.

Likely candidates are Hasbro and Disney, who seem to be monopolizing nerdom. PP does their own thing, probably doesn't want anything to do with GW or its IP.

The more interesting question I feel is who fills GW's shoes if they do down? And I guarantee it would be who you think it will be.

I think when GW goes down we'll be left with 4 or 5 other companies all stepping in to take 10-20% of their remaining market share and instead of one company holding the monopoly as a dozen smaller ones chip away at it we'll see real competition in the market again, which should be good for us, the consumers.

Hopefully, but if someone does take their spot I think it will be mantic, most people would say PP, but I'd disagree, mostly because for a game to reach warhammer levels of popularity it needs to be newbie friendly, warmachine is decidedly newbie hostile. Either that or x-wing by fantasy flight will kick more ass than its already kicking. Flames of war isn't focused enough, too many products, bolt action is too historical for the pubbies and too ahistorical for the neck beards (which is a shame because I really like it), other 28mm skirmish games are too small scale, they don't offer the grand army appeal that warhammer has and saprtan games is too niche.

Anyway, just the opinions of a random 20 something half american half kiwi university student with no formal marketing training and some limited sales experience.

 RatBot wrote:

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:


If any company gets bought in the next few years or goes out of business it will be Privateer Press before Games Workshop in all honesty.

Interesting. Have any evidence/logic to back that up? (and I don't mean that in a snarky way, as a private company PP doesn't have to release financial information, so I'm curious if you actually know something).

Just my opinion on the industry. While the game does seem great and a lot of people enjoy it, the miniatures are sub par. There casting process has many issues and several pieces use low quality plastics. (Not sure the exact names not to familiar with the line lol)
They are also a company run by hobbyist not businessmen/women and make the mistakes of a hobbyist.
People decry Games Workshop but at the end of the day they are a business and run the company as one. The miniatures may be expensive but there isn't a company out there producing kits to the same level as them and in the quantity they produce and sell. Yes boutiques like Kingdom Death are amazing sculpts but they don't produce to the level of Games Workshop. Privateer Press WILL NEVER rival Games Workshop in this aspect.

This is a conversation I've been having with several people lately about the problems with the industry and why it is such a "small" community.
And I do know someone interested in owning PP, but he also wants to buy majority share in GW in his 30 year plan. Do I think he could do it? I actually do. The industry is about to be turned on it's head in the next few months thanks to him.

I'm unsure about Mantic; no store I've been to in the states stocks more than a box or two, I've never seen anyone using their models and have never seen anyone playing their games.

I also think they'd need to step up the quality of their sculpts and speed up their release cycle. I do think a lot of their more recent sculpts are quite good, so they're getting there, slowly, but how long has Warpath been in existence with only half of the armies and half of the units for those armies released?

I could see it happening but, like I said, they'd really need to step it up a bit.

Without GW I think they'd pick it up. I think they'd be the ones to come out on top simply because their games have that kind of broad spectrum appeal and large feel needed to come out on top.

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:

 RatBot wrote:

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:


If any company gets bought in the next few years or goes out of business it will be Privateer Press before Games Workshop in all honesty.

Interesting. Have any evidence/logic to back that up? (and I don't mean that in a snarky way, as a private company PP doesn't have to release financial information, so I'm curious if you actually know something).

Just my opinion on the industry. While the game does seem great and a lot of people enjoy it, the miniatures are sub par. There casting process has many issues and several pieces use low quality plastics. (Not sure the exact names not to familiar with the line lol)
They are also a company run by hobbyist not businessmen/women and make the mistakes of a hobbyist.
People decry Games Workshop but at the end of the day they are a business and run the company as one. The miniatures may be expensive but there isn't a company out there producing kits to the same level as them and in the quantity they produce and sell. Yes boutiques like Kingdom Death are amazing sculpts but they don't produce to the level of Games Workshop. Privateer Press WILL NEVER rival Games Workshop in this aspect.

This is a conversation I've been having with several people lately about the problems with the industry and why it is such a "small" community.
And I do know someone interested in owning PP, but he also wants to buy majority share in GW in his 30 year plan. Do I think he could do it? I actually do. The industry is about to be turned on it's head in the next few months thanks to him.

That's a sensible argument. As someone who really likes PP's games and even their models (I haven't gotten a miscast yet, on anything I've bought from any company, for that matter), even I will conceded that, especially in recent years, GW's models have been pretty top-notch (with some exceptions). I don't think GW is going anywhere soon, nor do I think that if PP is going to eclipse them that it will be soon, but considering their popularity amongst gamers (I can't speak for people who are primarily collectors/painters as I don't know any) I think PP is going to be fine for quite a while.


As for that last bit about your friend, you'll have to forgive my skepticism, but if you end up being right, I'll happily admit to it.

 RatBot wrote:
I'm unsure about Mantic; no store I've been to in the states stocks more than a box or two, I've never seen anyone using their models and have never seen anyone playing their games.

I also think they'd need to step up the quality of their sculpts and speed up their release cycle. I do think a lot of their more recent sculpts are quite good, so they're getting there, slowly, but how long has Warpath been in existence with only half of the armies and half of the units for those armies released?

I could see it happening but, like I said, they'd really need to step it up a bit.

This is exactly why Mantic could never replace GW as well.
Maybe I'm not familiar with new sculpts from them, but the ones I do know are just garbage imitations of GW products reproduced by ex-GW employees.
Several of the miniatures just look awkward and goofy with worse proportions than Games Workshop.

The argument that without GW the industry would be better is pointless. Without GW there would be no industry. Literally Games Workshop and their IP is the most well known IP. If they went belly up, everyone in the industry would suffer.

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:

 RatBot wrote:
I'm unsure about Mantic; no store I've been to in the states stocks more than a box or two, I've never seen anyone using their models and have never seen anyone playing their games.

I also think they'd need to step up the quality of their sculpts and speed up their release cycle. I do think a lot of their more recent sculpts are quite good, so they're getting there, slowly, but how long has Warpath been in existence with only half of the armies and half of the units for those armies released?

I could see it happening but, like I said, they'd really need to step it up a bit.

This is exactly why Mantic could never replace GW as well.
Maybe I'm not familiar with new sculpts from them, but the ones I do know are just garbage imitations of GW products reproduced by ex-GW employees.
Several of the miniatures just look awkward and goofy with worse proportions than Games Workshop.

The argument that without GW the industry would be better is pointless. Without GW there would be no industry. Literally Games Workshop and their IP is the most well known IP. If they went belly up, everyone in the industry would suffer.

I have no doubt that you are just a guy with your own intelligent and informed opinions, but that argument is the same canned one every GW employee I've met has said to me whenever other games are mentioned.

I like GW. I may not agree with every single decision they make, but overall I like the way their products and the way they operate. I wish there was more communication with their buyers, but I really wouldn't want to see anything happen to them.

 EmilCrane wrote:

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:

 RatBot wrote:
I'm unsure about Mantic; no store I've been to in the states stocks more than a box or two, I've never seen anyone using their models and have never seen anyone playing their games.

I also think they'd need to step up the quality of their sculpts and speed up their release cycle. I do think a lot of their more recent sculpts are quite good, so they're getting there, slowly, but how long has Warpath been in existence with only half of the armies and half of the units for those armies released?

I could see it happening but, like I said, they'd really need to step it up a bit.

This is exactly why Mantic could never replace GW as well.
Maybe I'm not familiar with new sculpts from them, but the ones I do know are just garbage imitations of GW products reproduced by ex-GW employees.
Several of the miniatures just look awkward and goofy with worse proportions than Games Workshop.

The argument that without GW the industry would be better is pointless. Without GW there would be no industry. Literally Games Workshop and their IP is the most well known IP. If they went belly up, everyone in the industry would suffer.

I have no doubt that you are just a guy with your own intelligent and informed opinions, but that argument is the same one every canned GW employee I've met has said to me whenever other games are mentioned.

I do work in the industry, but not for Games Workshop, nor will I ever work for them.
I think that is what you were trying to say?
Maybe I am misunderstanding. I changed your quote to what I assume it was supposed to read.

If GW were to be sold I think FFG as owner would produce the best effects for current fans. Fantasy Flight have been on a roll in recent years and already know how to use the properties. They have also been getting miniature games experience with x-wing. GW's games don't directly overlap (fantasy & sci-fi mass battles compared to starfighter skirmish).

Privateer Press would make for an interesting owner since they would become even more of a minis game specialist. They would probably do the best at revising the rules. PP would greatly benefit from the expertise of GW's staff in how to produce plastic minis. With so many product lines under one roof that compete directly with each other I'd expect all of the games to change and appeal to different target markets.

Hasbro is the only one that I believe could realistically buy GW. Their ownership would likely result in some drastic changes to the company and the products. 40k and fantasy would become very different from what we know over the course of a decade. Hasbro knows how to make a game big though. MTG and D&D are as mainstream as it gets in the industry. I would expect 40k to be their main focus since they already own two strong fantasy franchises. Warhammer Monopoly would be cool though.

Mantic would probably be most respectful of the properties if they somehow became owners. They would probably change the least of all companies listed. I don't think they would do much different from what the current management does now except the fundamental communication and customer satisfaction shift. -then again for GW that would be an earthshaking change. The KoW and warpath universes would be rolled up into 40k and fantasy.

ExiledMiniatures wrote:The argument that without GW the industry would be better is pointless. Without GW there would be no industry. Literally Games Workshop and their IP is the most well known IP. If they went belly up, everyone in the industry would suffer.

I really think you're overestimating GWs position in the market there. They are the biggest, they are probably the ones that draw in the most new blood, but there is the entire Historical sub market that has existed for decades without feeling the presence of GW at all. Ten or twenty years ago I might have agreed but now there are far too many games that are seeing massive growth, no doubt GW is the biggest, but I really think you're getting the wrong impression from your local area if you really think this is the case.

ExiledMiniatures wrote:As unpopular as it is the think, GW is fine. They don't need anyone to buy them.
They are a great company from a business stand point. 7th Ed. is an answer to a business problem.
Poor fiscal year in 2013, not as good of a Q1 as they expected so how do you fix it? Release a new rule book in Q2 and a new starter set in Q3.

If any company gets bought in the next few years or goes out of business it will be Privateer Press before Games Workshop in all honesty.

Skipping over that PP are a private company who haven't shown any sighs of being unstable (that I'm aware of), what makes you think GW are a stable company?
I can tell you why I think they are in a very dangerous place right now; they have been using cost cutting and price rises to cover falling sales for years now. They have grown barely above inflation for what.. the last 4 years? And now this last half year report has come out and profits are down and sales are way down. They seem to be having trouble maintaining stock when new books come out, such as the Tau and more recently the Wood Elves, suggesting they are making less and less product (I believe someone did the math on the last report and saw that they where spending a lot less on production and raw materials too).
Then there is the fact that the rest of the market seems to be growing massively, which suggest that people are spending a lot mote on the hobby but that GW is not seeing any of this new money.

Personally I don't think I have ever seen GW in this bad a position.

Other;

The companies listed (Hasbro aside) are a fraction of the size of GW and therefore the chance of it happening would be remote beyond the extreme.

Hasbro would be a train wreck. You want Grim and Dark you will get Saccharin Sweet heroism and other things that joe average Amurikan will approve of (i.e. not a tit in sight but tonnes of explosions) until the revenue drops and they pull out.

A private individual would be the only way to achieve any of the wish-listy things that are deemed needed at GW. Anyone know of any Nerdy Oligarchs?

Me, I think a new Management team would be fine, ideally with an in-house appointment for MD that would hopefully strike a balance between the necessary corporate business and the more diverse industry knowledge to make the products we want.

I'll also say that I don't think many of the neigh sayers that flock to these threads like moths to a flame (bait) quite appreciate the lonely furrow that GW plough. They provide manufacture and retail on a medium (large for the niche) scale which I can think of no other organisation doing. Far from not know what they are doing I think GW have done a remarkable job over three decades that other similar companies have not managed. Whether GW are producing exactly what we want or not is a bit irrelevant, who will have the experience to want to risk taking on such a peculiar beast might be a more pertinent question.

I'd like to see Wargames Foundry buy 'em out.

Bandai is not a fraction of GW's size IMHO.
I would like Vivid to buy GW, they know how to penetrate the market.

Won't happen but that's a great call. Not sur Bryan Ansell would want to take the reigns again!

If GW went up for sale it would likely only be if they needed a huge cash investment to remain viable. That already removes most of the suggested companies; actually it pretty much removes any miniature company because they are all smaller than GW by a significant margin. They'd just not have the resources to pick up a whole company, a huge whole company and manage it and their own whilst also providing investment into the GW lines.

It's only if GW were healthy and wanted to "hand over the reigns" would we see another miniature company step in to take over; and considering that GW is not a private company that's a remote chance at best.

Like it or not we'd have to be looking at a buyer outside of the miniatures market - with all the risks that come with that. I would expect any company buying GW would respect the IP and market; chances are even if their prime market is in another sector they would let GW operate to its own market rather than try to change it. If they wanted to change it they'd be best to use their other mediums to use the IP content to sell through that.

Of course they might step in and make huge changes; I'd expect to see the stores on the highstreet gone (its likely GW's biggest expense); I'd also suspect that we'd see more outsourcing to China and other markets for miniature production; not to cut losses, but more to scale up the production. Hasbro and such would have the bonus that they could likely land GW products in most highstreet toystores.
Of course the problem there is competition, we'd likely see more boxed sets of miniatures grouped together; we could also see armies get smaller or even lose armies - GW's biggest problem on the shelf on the highstreet is that you need a big section of shelf space to sell a large proportion of miniatures (and when you don't have that space most stores have to block things, so you've got a stack of boxes of random armies all ontop of each other - hiding products!)