Maxus wrote:Jidmah wrote:While your opinion is appreciated you are missing two things:
1) There are WH40k tournaments with prices. So even if it is not meant to be played competitively(which is just a lazy excuse for bad balancing imo), people do play it competitively. In that case "you're no fun" is not going to help anyone.
Then possibly the most correct answer for the
OP's question is bring at least two lists to play at a tournament, make your argument to the
TO's and see how they rule. It won't matter what people say on an internet forum (it may help you form your argument to the
TO), the
TO may or may not read this forum and may or may not agree with the argument for or against. Until the rule is
FAQ'ed or otherwise dealt with in official manner by the company who makes the rules, there is the wiggle room of a
TO not agreeing with any argument.
I've seen
TOs randomly ban battlewagon because they though them too powerful, so that's hardly a point. If you actually have a
TO who cares about the rules, threads such as this provide you with the arguments to resolve the issue. You're basically saying we should close down the entire
YMDC forum and live happily ever after.
2) Most people arguing here would still not use that rule without asking their opponent first. Also see the rules of this forum about RAW vs "How would you play it?".
This is the difficulty of trying to relate a codex that was written, what 5+ years ago, to a new edition and the game company not addressing it in a
FAQ.
The "ability" in question is not a special rule, its a wargear option upgrade. Any unit in the army can "upgrade" something that is in the Ork Wargear section, therefore it is war gear. Since Allies of Convenience and/or Desperate Allies are treated at enemy units, enemy units cannot use your armies wargear you cannot spend the points to upgrade your enemy unit allies even at the building stage, because they are still considered enemy units.
Counter-point: I can also use heavy bolters in my army, which never were in my ork codex, by buying a bastion. Everything else you said might be your opinion, but not a rule.
Now, lets argue the other side of the coin. The "ability" in question is not a special rule, its a war gear option upgrade. Even though the Allies of Convenience and/or Desperate Allies are treated as enemy units, Mad Dok Grotsink's Army List entry says specifically that "Any unit in an army including Grotsnik may upgrade its members...". And yes, this goes back to the Kans and Dreads being upgraded argument,
How was this an argument? The
FAQ explicitly tells you to cybork anything but vehicles and unique characters. Walkers are vehicles.
So either agree with your friends how to play it, or bring two lists (or the same list and switch the points around to another unit, or buy something else with those other +5 points per model) and roll a d6 to decide how to play it every time you decide to play, until someone agrees with you how it should be played.
If there is no real counter-point to a rule you shouldn't need to bring two lists. I'm not bringing two lists in case some stupid
TO bans battlewagons again, either.
Per
RAW, Gortznik can cybork anything not listed as an exception in the
FAQ. This includes any model in your army.
On a side note, artillery models are no longer vehicles. So can we now cybork kannons, lobbas, zzap guns or even quad guns in the
ADL?
