Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 LunaHound wrote:
The site is not shut down, nor are the FW products gone.

Boys and Girls, expect to see Revenant and Phantom Titan dropping in 3 weeks from now.

*Edit, actually the next wave are already out, just not on a private owned website .

 leroy233 wrote:
I didnt even know that these sites were available, i thought gw would trample on all who defy them.

I know what they do is wrong but some of the fw stuff is just plain expensive.

If they drop the price people would buy more stuff, well i would anyway.

Are there anymore site like this?

Thats what GW fans want you to believe, they tell you the quality is bad, which is actually superior.
They tell you the shipping is slow, but its 3 weeks and free shipping.
They tell you its cheap because sweat shop. Well if you call 3 people in a kitchen sized room a sweat shop.
They tell you why GW is expensive, yet I can tell you the recasters are making high % of profit still, even at a fraction of FW price.

However....... I don't like pirates and recasters, and that link still links to recasts, which is still not ok.
Reporting link.

 Kanluwen wrote:
*point and laugh*

Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.

Don't know what to tell you.... there are at least 10 other re casters I can find.

MMMM..... Luna makes me want to go on a shadowrun down in Jumphouse Barrens.

Just make sure you got the clink, Mr Johnson.

People asking for links: No. Get over it, I'm not posting it or pm'ing you. It's against forum rules, and unfortunately for y'all, I enjoy having my own more or less private shopping network. The reason miniatureshobby/coolcast went down the drain is because certain people (bell of lost souls especially) made the dumb mistake of posting links all over the place. Once everyone knows about it, GW knows about it, and legal action is initiated. Besides that, ordering from my 'contacts' requires going through middlemen, etc. So no joy if you want the amazon.com experience.

chaos0xomega wrote:
People asking for links: No. Get over it, I'm not posting it or pm'ing you. It's against forum rules, and unfortunately for y'all, I enjoy having my own more or less private shopping network. The reason miniatureshobby/coolcast went down the drain is because certain people (bell of lost souls especially) made the dumb mistake of posting links all over the place. Once everyone knows about it, GW knows about it, and legal action is initiated. Besides that, ordering from my 'contacts' requires going through middlemen, etc. So no joy if you want the amazon.com experience.

You got a Doc Wagon Contract for that, too?

Errr... what?

Sorry, got caught up in the Shadowrun moment, looking at the seedy underbelly of rebel casters, and dark deals with Dragons, Demons, and whatnot.

back on track though-

The basic info on this subject is to go look for what your looking for, but don't run your hole when you find it to paraphrase you.

and yes, Virginia, they are out there.

Remember the first rule of fight club?


Yeah, thats the one.

So if you place a large order and they shut down to reopen elsewhere, do they still send you your order? Or refund your money? Typically businesses that close shop aren't terribly good about fulfilling outstanding orders. Especially ones on the other side of the globe.
This is what keeps me from seriously considering an order.

How does everyone feel about the Rackham recasts? I'm tempted to order some. I know many of the molds are currently _in_ China, and last I heard from Paulo Parente, one of the guys who Rackham owed a ton of money to when they went bust is about to destroy them.

 judgedoug wrote:
How does everyone feel about the Rackham recasts? I'm tempted to order some. I know many of the molds are currently _in_ China, and last I heard from Paulo Parente, one of the guys who Rackham owed a ton of money to when they went bust is about to destroy them.

Given the price that CMON are asking for the same minis?

My morality to the subject is entirely governed by my perception of the greed of the manufacturer...

If you really want cheap models go buy it from chinese websites and look for warhammer however, they will not send overseas so thats 1 problem.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
How does everyone feel about the Rackham recasts? I'm tempted to order some. I know many of the molds are currently _in_ China, and last I heard from Paulo Parente, one of the guys who Rackham owed a ton of money to when they went bust is about to destroy them.

Given the price that CMON are asking for the same minis?

My morality to the subject is entirely governed by my perception of the greed of the manufacturer...

I'm talking about the ones that CMON will never be able to re-release because the molds are gone.

 grotblaster wrote:
So if you place a large order and they shut down to reopen elsewhere, do they still send you your order? Or refund your money? Typically businesses that close shop aren't terribly good about fulfilling outstanding orders. Especially ones on the other side of the globe.
This is what keeps me from seriously considering an order.

They never actually go out of business - it just becomes difficult for them to do business under a specific name in the Western world. Paypal refuses to process payments to them until the offending items are removed from the website (though they will still process a payment for an unspecified invoice). eBay removes listings which are the easiest form of advertising for them. Domain registries remove the site from their servers...

The actual casters just keep on casting, more or less oblivious to the efforts to stop them. When a site goes down, they create a new one (Happy Hobby Network or something equally silly). When eBay bans their account - they create a new one. When Paypal stops processing their payments - they create a new Paypal account. While they are indifferent to IP laws, they tend to actually provide pretty good customer support for the products which they sell directly.

I'll miss coolcastornot (until they come back) - I got a few items from them, some back when they were miniatureshobby and they've been consistently great

Shame I don't know about the more obscure sites, but as long as miniatureshobby comes back it'll be alright. Unlike most people I don't actually use them for Forgeworld stuff (although I might if FW take much longer to send out my last order, it's been two weeks already) - I use them for plastic parts recast in resin, because I prefer working in resin. That, and they have a nice range of resin skulls for which I have no idea who the original manufacturer was.

Charax wrote:
I'll miss coolcastornot (until they come back) - I got a few items from them, some back when they were miniatureshobby and they've been consistently great

Shame I don't know about the more obscure sites, but as long as miniatureshobby comes back it'll be alright. Unlike most people I don't actually use them for Forgeworld stuff (although I might if FW take much longer to send out my last order, it's been two weeks already) - I use them for plastic parts recast in resin, because I prefer working in resin. That, and they have a nice range of resin skulls for which I have no idea who the original manufacturer was.

Learn Chinese - there are a lot of them out there. Heck - online translators have gotten good enough you can stumble around without too much of a problem using Google or Bing translators.

 Marthike wrote:
If you really want cheap models go buy it from chinese websites and look for warhammer however, they will not send overseas so thats 1 problem.

except all those chinese sites that send overseas, by which I mean pretty much all of them.

I feel threads like this are actually catering to recasters... so much info and hints and everything >.>
Its really not helping us fight recasters....

 LunaHound wrote:
Its really not helping us fight recasters....

Fighting recasters is GW's job, I don't recall being deputised to help GW protect its business model at any point.

I haven't ordered from these site and would be a bit dubious about it, Im not a fan of ordering from China after a bad seller on the net done me over.

However if the quality is as good as people are saying what are GW playing at with all their money they should be streets ahead in quality?

Charax wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
Its really not helping us fight recasters....

Fighting recasters is GW's job, I don't recall being deputised to help GW protect its business model at any point.

Just saying, a few wants to "celebrate" some FW items being taken down, while openly link the recaster site.
Which no doubt is bringing in more new customers.....
A bit detrimental I guess to their aim?

Charax wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
Its really not helping us fight recasters....

Fighting recasters is GW's job, I don't recall being deputised to help GW protect its business model at any point.

The problem is, and GW is shooting themselves in the foot with this, that if you wish for GW to be the game company you want to know and love, you'll protect their game. It's like showing loyalty to your flgs by buying there instead of buying online at places like Wayland or Maelstrom, etc... You love GW, you want to support GW, then you should strive to shut down recasters because they're undercutting GW.

Yes, this is a bit of ridiculous example because GW is very hard to like/love, but at the same time it is something that needs to be done by those that wish to see 40k keep expanding.

The recasters are just making it tough by offering good prices and good, if not better, product.

I'll posit a little point here.

Say Ford made the Pinto. It was expensive, and had all manner of production flaws that required you to fix it up right after you bought it brand new.

Now say that Xao Bing Corp sells that exact Pinto, for less money and you don't have to fix it at all.

Which would you buy?

GW should be forced to fix their quality and pricing, otherwise I,ll keep buying what I can from the company that is doing it right, regardless of who designed the models.

Oddly enough You don't really see recasts of smaller companies like CHS or Maxmini, at least not on the scale that GW has. CHS is a garage company and their products are shipped just fine, and if not they are replaced with proper versions.

How many times did Akaranseth have to swap out Finecast models until he got a proper cast?

And that's an asinine stance to take, especially as it ignores a major factor.

Xao Bing Corp is running their manufacturing in such a way that they are using the exact same machines and the exact same employees that they are paid by Ford for the production of the Pinto.

So why is there such a difference?

They'll be back.

In fact, in the last few weeks, at least two Russian-based recasters have set up shop online. I've already taken advantage of the savings.

 Aerethan wrote:
I'll posit a little point here.

Say Ford made the Pinto. It was expensive, and had all manner of production flaws that required you to fix it up right after you bought it brand new.

Now say that Xao Bing Corp sells that exact Pinto, for less money and you don't have to fix it at all.

Which would you buy?

GW should be forced to fix their quality and pricing, otherwise I,ll keep buying what I can from the company that is doing it right, regardless of who designed the models.

Oddly enough You don't really see recasts of smaller companies like CHS or Maxmini, at least not on the scale that GW has. CHS is a garage company and their products are shipped just fine, and if not they are replaced with proper versions.

How many times did Akaranseth have to swap out Finecast models until he got a proper cast?

I agree with the sentiments of your statement, but you're missing out on the massive levels of regulation that come with the production of cars.

I would like to note that you did have to fix the Pinto right after you bought it, but at the same time there are different regulations between models and cars. A finecast model won't ignite and explode if you drop its ass on the table. Though if you were GW, it would be a nice marketing strategy, and a way to make people buy more models as they would have to replace their new and improve "fineshrapnel".

Also I'm not saying recasters are a good thing or a bad thing, I don't buy from them because I don't buy enough GW to warrant me looking at their recasting competitiors, but the guy I was responding to was asking why it is our job as gamers to police the market when it's GW's job...

Also in the continuance of your example... if Ford's Pinto had issues and overpriced the value of the car that exploded upon being rear-ended, and Xao Bing Corp sold that exact same car cheaper and without the threat of death, I would go to Chevy instead of buying the Ford, no one is forcing me to only buy the Ford, just like no one is forcing me to buy GW models (or sculpts) for GW games.

 Alfndrate wrote:

Charax wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
Its really not helping us fight recasters....

Fighting recasters is GW's job, I don't recall being deputised to help GW protect its business model at any point.

The problem is, and GW is shooting themselves in the foot with this, that if you wish for GW to be the game company you want to know and love, you'll protect their game. It's like showing loyalty to your flgs by buying there instead of buying online at places like Wayland or Maelstrom, etc... You love GW, you want to support GW, then you should strive to shut down recasters because they're undercutting GW.

Yes, this is a bit of ridiculous example because GW is very hard to like/love, but at the same time it is something that needs to be done by those that wish to see 40k keep expanding.

The recasters are just making it tough by offering good prices and good, if not better, product.

Maybe they'll start offering good, if not better, rules and fluff as well.

 leroy233 wrote:
I haven't ordered from these site and would be a bit dubious about it, Im not a fan of ordering from China after a bad seller on the net done me over.

However if the quality is as good as people are saying what are GW playing at with all their money they should be streets ahead in quality?

I feel dubious about every new retailer I try, the first order is always a gamble - I chucked in a $30 order with the expectation that either I'd lose $30, or I'd gain models & a new source of models. It paid off massively. It did take a month to get here though, so those are just factors you have to weigh up.

 LunaHound wrote:


Just saying, a few wants to "celebrate" some FW items being taken down, while openly link the recaster site.
Which no doubt is bringing in more new customers.....
A bit detrimental I guess to their aim?

It does seem quite inconsistent, except that the links are going to a place that explicitly doesn't sell GW recasts anymore, so I dont see how it's helping - they don't use redirects on the site so whenever the replacement goes up knowing the URL for the old shop won't help

 Alfndrate wrote:

The problem is, and GW is shooting themselves in the foot with this, that if you wish for GW to be the game company you want to know and love, you'll protect their game. It's like showing loyalty to your flgs by buying there instead of buying online at places like Wayland or Maelstrom, etc... You love GW, you want to support GW, then you should strive to shut down recasters because they're undercutting GW.

By the same token shouldn't I always buy direct from GW so they get the whole price of whatever I buy rather than a FLGS or online retailer taking a cut?

Brand loyalty is a funny thing, because it usually comes into play because a certain brand is better in some way than another - like the android Vs iphone thing, people are loyal to a brand because of that brand's attributes, but here they're the exact same products, the only difference is the source. I don't think many companies would survive (indeed, many haven't) because someone else could manufacture the exact same thing cheaper. If someone started selling NotCoke which had the same exact properties as regular coke, but was cheaper, people will choose it.

Here, the differences are quite minor (the casting medium, the fact it's being sold from China, the fact it's not GW selling it, the relative obscurity of the recasters) that the only reasons to show loyalty are if one of those very specific differences resonates with you in some way?

Personally? I've given GW (Forgeworld, really) about £40 this year, the rest I buy second-hand, the people I game with have full armies, the local GW shut down almost a decade ago - I don't really see how my gaming would change one iota if GW crumbled tomorrow, so without the "Do it to keep GW alive because you wub them" argument what is there as an incentive?

 angel of ecstasy wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Charax wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
Its really not helping us fight recasters....

Fighting recasters is GW's job, I don't recall being deputised to help GW protect its business model at any point.

The problem is, and GW is shooting themselves in the foot with this, that if you wish for GW to be the game company you want to know and love, you'll protect their game. It's like showing loyalty to your flgs by buying there instead of buying online at places like Wayland or Maelstrom, etc... You love GW, you want to support GW, then you should strive to shut down recasters because they're undercutting GW.

Yes, this is a bit of ridiculous example because GW is very hard to like/love, but at the same time it is something that needs to be done by those that wish to see 40k keep expanding.

The recasters are just making it tough by offering good prices and good, if not better, product.

Maybe they'll start offering good, if not better, rules and fluff as well.

How is this hard to understand?

No corporation not based in a third world country is able to compete with recasters.

Recasters have no real overhead to speak of, nor do they worry about things like paying their employees a livable wage.
The phenomenon from China is that these recasters are actually using the same molds that the corporation which is paying the factory to produce their product gave them.

 LunaHound wrote:
The site is not shut down, nor are the FW products gone.

Boys and Girls, expect to see Revenant and Phantom Titan dropping in 3 weeks from now.

*Edit, actually the next wave are already out, just not on a private owned website .

 leroy233 wrote:
I didnt even know that these sites were available, i thought gw would trample on all who defy them.

I know what they do is wrong but some of the fw stuff is just plain expensive.

If they drop the price people would buy more stuff, well i would anyway.

Are there anymore site like this?

Thats what GW fans want you to believe, they tell you the quality is bad, which is actually superior.
They tell you the shipping is slow, but its 3 weeks and free shipping.
They tell you its cheap because sweat shop. Well if you call 3 people in a kitchen sized room a sweat shop.
They tell you why GW is expensive, yet I can tell you the recasters are making high % of profit still, even at a fraction of FW price.

However....... I don't like pirates and recasters, and that link still links to recasts, which is still not ok.
Reporting link.

 Kanluwen wrote:
*point and laugh*

Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.

Don't know what to tell you.... there are at least 10 other re casters I can find.

That is expensive for a recast. £16.8

Charax wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

The problem is, and GW is shooting themselves in the foot with this, that if you wish for GW to be the game company you want to know and love, you'll protect their game. It's like showing loyalty to your flgs by buying there instead of buying online at places like Wayland or Maelstrom, etc... You love GW, you want to support GW, then you should strive to shut down recasters because they're undercutting GW.

By the same token shouldn't I always buy direct from GW so they get the whole price of whatever I buy rather than a FLGS or online retailer taking a cut?

No

Brand loyalty is a funny thing, because it usually comes into play because a certain brand is better in some way than another - like the android Vs iphone thing, people are loyal to a brand because of that brand's attributes, but here they're the exact same products, the only difference is the source. I don't think many companies would survive (indeed, many haven't) because someone else could manufacture the exact same thing cheaper. If someone started selling NotCoke which had the same exact properties as regular coke, but was cheaper, people will choose it.

Not to step on your parade, but there already is NotCoke, and it exists all around the word. My own personal experience with "NotCoke" was with a drink called Mecca-Cola. The can I had tasted exactly like coke, and according to my professor who bought it for the class after watching the Coke Wars documentary in our Intercultural Communications class, it was cheaper than a 12 pack of Coke. The reason why the majority of people still buy Coke is because it's got mass market, global appeal. Mecca-Cola is literally marketed to the muslim community world-wide. And there are already examples of people in other countries buying "NotCoke" that's cheaper... is LA Ice Cola still a thing in Australia?

 angel of ecstasy wrote:

Maybe they'll start offering good, if not better, rules and fluff as well.

LOL! Well played sir.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 angel of ecstasy wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Charax wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
Its really not helping us fight recasters....

Fighting recasters is GW's job, I don't recall being deputised to help GW protect its business model at any point.

The problem is, and GW is shooting themselves in the foot with this, that if you wish for GW to be the game company you want to know and love, you'll protect their game. It's like showing loyalty to your flgs by buying there instead of buying online at places like Wayland or Maelstrom, etc... You love GW, you want to support GW, then you should strive to shut down recasters because they're undercutting GW.

Yes, this is a bit of ridiculous example because GW is very hard to like/love, but at the same time it is something that needs to be done by those that wish to see 40k keep expanding.

The recasters are just making it tough by offering good prices and good, if not better, product.

Maybe they'll start offering good, if not better, rules and fluff as well.

How is this hard to understand?

No corporation not based in a third world country is able to compete with recasters.

Recasters have no real overhead to speak of, nor do they worry about things like paying their employees a livable wage.
The phenomenon from China is that these recasters are actually using the same molds that the corporation which is paying the factory to produce their product gave them.

Forgeworld is being cast in China? Or are they casting resin copies from the plastic injection molds?

None of the parts that were sold on coolcast are manufactured in China by those same methods from GW.

Does china do any manufacturing for GW models? If so, I'd say it's only a matter of time before we start seeing plastics on the black market, and I'll crap myself from all the savings.

Perhaps companies will think twice about having China do all their production if it means that exact copies will outsell the originals.