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yeah I agree with that, but if they do that 40k will start to lose a lot of sales as people move from an incompetent design studio and broken game to 30k that doesn't suffer these things near as badly.

 Formosa wrote:
yeah I agree with that, but if they do that 40k will start to lose a lot of sales as people move from an incompetent design studio and broken game to 30k that doesn't suffer these things near as badly.

You make it sound like that's a bad thing.

To gw it would be haha

 Blacksails wrote:
Pfft, that's cause no one is using the Invincible Salamander Praetor of Death Incarnate.

Dude is EW, MC Thunderhammer, MC Melta Pistol, 2+/3++, and an extra attack.

I'm just curious to see if or when some sort of Xenos get introduced as a Great Crusade supplement or what-not. That would make, in my eyes, 30k much more appealing than anything 'normal' 40k.

Why the Thunderhammer over the Paragon Blade?

Though we'll likely start to see evil daemon magos stuff soon enough.

Thunder hammer to id those characters that cannot id you, short of kharn on the charge or sigismund, there is little that can eat the salamander if doom

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Pfft, that's cause no one is using the Invincible Salamander Praetor of Death Incarnate.

Dude is EW, MC Thunderhammer, MC Melta Pistol, 2+/3++, and an extra attack.

I'm just curious to see if or when some sort of Xenos get introduced as a Great Crusade supplement or what-not. That would make, in my eyes, 30k much more appealing than anything 'normal' 40k.

Why the Thunderhammer over the Paragon Blade?

Though we'll likely start to see evil daemon magos stuff soon enough.

Formosa wrote:Thunder hammer to id those characters that cannot id you, short of kharn on the charge or sigismund, there is little that can eat the salamander if doom

This.

Paragon Blade is nice, don't get me wrong, but S8 is more versatile, and seeing as the Praetor is 2+/3++ and EW, I wouldn't be worried about swinging last.

That and hammers are fluffier for Sallies anyways. Not to mention more badass looking.

Exactly why all my apothecary and sarges have caedre weapons, looks badass, plays like ass haha.

Paragon blade seems like the go to for everyone's praetor, but I much prefure my praetor cheap and choppy, don't care if he dies and I usually have 2 other centurions running around hacking stuff up.

My praetor
power weapon (sword or axe)
Digital weapons
refractor field.

If I want to go mad and uber choppy I take bezerker assault and

Praetor
dual sword caedre weapons (forgot the name aaaaaah)
digital weapons
Iron halo
that gets me 4 basic attacks, + 2 on charge, +1 for 2ccw and +1 for sword special rule all rending and furious charge

 Formosa wrote:
Thunder hammer to id those characters that cannot id you, short of kharn on the charge or sigismund, there is little that can eat the salamander if doom

Para blade can also ID those of the T6+ Category, which is handy when fighting mechanicus.

Haha too true

My builds are pure kill as many mofo troops as possible, I leave the big things to angry Ron and the comtemptors

Fair enough, I run the EC Rites of War so Talons of Dreadnoughts coming in with the Hidden Blade certainly does keep armies on their toes.

Right gents, I'm in the process of updating this as we speak, I'm looking for comments and opinions on the best ways yo use certain units, combined with legions traits, rites etc., the best ones will make it into my articles and you will of course be credited.

Submissions to my pm box or
Arkwilkinson83@hotmail.com

You going to do the other armies such as Militia and Cults, or just the Legion? Because I can probably right some stuff up for the millitia.

 saithor wrote:
You going to do the other armies such as Militia and Cults, or just the Legion? Because I can probably right some stuff up for the millitia.

Go Ahead, any community input is welcome.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Realize that 30K Heresy is supposed to be Legion vs. Legion. Not Legion vs. Xenos. I think the Tau and Eldar would be OK vs. a 30K list, but Orks, Bugs, Daemons, and even Guard would have a hard time against a 30K list.

Those people that say "Legion lists are fine against a 40K list" are just plain wrong. Or not really wrong, you just have to be very careful about how you go about it.

Not at all. I've yet to lose a game against 30K with daemons- none of the legions (and especially not the Mechanicum) have a real answer to Daemon death-stars.

What people tend to forget is that 30K units are overcosted. At less than 2000 points they can't put as much firepower on the board as 40K lists.

Demons are, in fact, already in 30K as they can be allies to Word Bearers.

Deamons are there own faction in hh now with the 2 lords of the ruin storm, we just decided to drop the pretense of them being just allies and allowed them, and tell you what, they are very nasty against legion units, fear actually affects them, they can be run down, but most of all its bloody cool having angron face off against a bloodthirster, yeah he kills it most of the time, but it's looks cool and I could imagine the thirster going "dude, you crazy" as it's head butted to death.

On topic expect an update to op, on the whole it will be mostly similar just with new tips and changes in line with 7th, also feedback and opinions from other players.

Come on people, I've never known dakka to be short on opinions, let's hear your tips and how you like to use your legions.

I'd like to know if, Rites of War and Special Characters put to the side, people prefer using Praetors or Centurions as their HQ in smaller points games. I'm getting started with an HH army, and I don't see much of a reason to even bring a Praetor except to unlock Rites of War, whereas all the different upgrades to the base Centurion seem very juicy.

My main HQ so far is a Master of the Signal, because I've had a long-standing envy of Space Marine orbital bombardment attacks. Don't even have 1000 points painted up yet, so I'm not too worried about an expansive HQ selection at the moment, but I am starting to mull over whether I should do a couple more Centurion options, or just go ahead and do up a Praetor.

Long term, I totally intend to have several different versions of a Praetor+Command Squad (one with jumppacks, one with bikes, jetbike, TA, PA, etc)

 jasper76 wrote:
I'd like to know if, Rites of War and Special Characters put to the side, people prefer using Praetors or Centurions as their HQ in smaller points games. I'm getting started with an HH army, and I don't see much of a reason to even bring a Praetor except to unlock Rites of War, whereas all the different upgrades to the base Centurion seem very juicy.

My main HQ so far is a Master of the Signal, because I've had a long-standing envy of Space Marine orbital bombardment attacks. Don't even have 1000 points painted up yet, so I'm not too worried about an expansive HQ selection at the moment, but I am starting to mull over whether I should do a couple more Centurion options, or just go ahead and do up a Praetor.

Long term, I totally intend to have several different versions of a Praetor+Command Squad (one with jumppacks, one with bikes, jetbike, TA, PA, etc)



I

With centurions it's picking your poison, what legion are you using ?

I am doing a Second Legion army with homebrew rules. Won't bore you with extensive details, as I know homebrew rules aren't everone's cup of tea, but briefly my Legion Special Rules are:

1. 6+ Cover Save unless natural Cover Save is better.
2. Models with nucio-vox can purchase an upgraded powerpack that gives the unit Stealth (I use the Grey Knights teleport-y powerpacks to model this)

Other than that, I'm drawing rules and units from the cross-legion Crusade Army List.

Not sure if that helps with what Centurion options would be best for my army. I started with Master of Signal mostly because I've always wanted to have an orbital-bombardment-type rule (after getting hammered by 40k Chapter Master pie plates oh so many times), but also figured his wargear would be particularly useful for buffing Heavy Support Squads and the like.

 jasper76 wrote:
I'd like to know if, Rites of War and Special Characters put to the side, people prefer using Praetors or Centurions as their HQ in smaller points games. I'm getting started with an HH army, and I don't see much of a reason to even bring a Praetor except to unlock Rites of War, whereas all the different upgrades to the base Centurion seem very juicy.

My main HQ so far is a Master of the Signal, because I've had a long-standing envy of Space Marine orbital bombardment attacks. Don't even have 1000 points painted up yet, so I'm not too worried about an expansive HQ selection at the moment, but I am starting to mull over whether I should do a couple more Centurion options, or just go ahead and do up a Praetor.

Long term, I totally intend to have several different versions of a Praetor+Command Squad (one with jumppacks, one with bikes, jetbike, TA, PA, etc)

Other than Rites of War and better wargear options, there is one other thing Praetors get: the ability to roll twice on the Warlord Traits chart and pick the result they want.

Also, given your preference for the Master of Signal, you may want to take note of this excerpt from the HH FAQ:

Legion Support Officer (HH1 – page 191; CAL – page 17)
A Consul of this type may not be used as a compulsory HQ choice for the army unless
specifically exempted by a particular Legiones Astartes rule or Rite of War.
- This special rule is added to the Master of Signal, Librarian and Primus Medicae
Consul types.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Also, given your preference for the Master of Signal, you may want to take note of this excerpt from the HH FAQ:

Legion Support Officer (HH1 – page 191; CAL – page 17)
A Consul of this type may not be used as a compulsory HQ choice for the army unless
specifically exempted by a particular Legiones Astartes rule or Rite of War.
- This special rule is added to the Master of Signal, Librarian and Primus Medicae
Consul types.

Yikes, that FAQ certainly makes my list illegal, but I'm already playing an illegal army, so I'll just specifically exempt my Legion from this special rule for the time being. Once I get more HQ choices painted up, I may fall in line with this rule, but I think its kind of dumb...I guess they're thinking these Consul-types would be too busy performing their specialized functions to act as the primary leader on the battlefield.

 Blacksails wrote:
Pfft, that's cause no one is using the Invincible Salamander Praetor of Death Incarnate.

Dude is EW, MC Thunderhammer, MC Melta Pistol, 2+/3++, and an extra attack.

I'm just curious to see if or when some sort of Xenos get introduced as a Great Crusade supplement or what-not. That would make, in my eyes, 30k much more appealing than anything 'normal' 40k.

And how many points is that?

For a combat character I'd rather have Armillus Dynat who provides most of what you're boasting about here, (except EW and a 3++), but provides significantly more in the way of force multipliers.

@OP if you're interested, I have a thread on alterations to units in the Heresy here, including Orks: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/656878.page
Good work overall! I like a lot of your analysis, though Librarians are sadly limited to Level 2 now.

Also, I'd love to help provide some thoughts on the Alpha Legion.

Thanks quintius.

Librarians are given the psyker rule, as per brb and psyker not given a mastery level (your not) is automatically mastery level 1, you are then given permission to purchase 2 more, so as per raw, you can only be mastery 2-3, needs a faq.

Librarian definitely needs FAQd . I can interpret it at least two ways, and I don't know which one is correct.

Psychic powers seem intentionally weak in 30k...even Word Bearers don't seem that impressive to me. I'd be interested in reading over any material as to how to best use Psykers in a 30k list.

I'm currently working on the librarian part of my update, as my mate stu uses a lot for his word bearers.

Ok people, thanks for the emails and everyone who has taken part, the new review is almost done and I will be working on the primarchs in order next.

If anyone has any tips etc. Post them and I'll take them into account, hope you all enjoy the new review.

Excellent review, most helpful. Consider me subscribed

I have a correction to add though. I noticed under the "Apothecarian detachment" you say they can take a power weapon and you suggest a maul. Unfortunately, they may only take a sword as per the rules (unless the errata has been updated and I haven't noticed).

Ed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the legion tactical support squad only has 9 special weapons at full strength-the sergeant does not have a flamer to start with and can't take a different special weapon. He can have a combi-weapon though.

Unless that's a change, they all carry special weapons starting with a flamer from the get go according to my book.

Col. Dash wrote:
Unless that's a change, they all carry special weapons starting with a flamer from the get go according to my book.

In the wargear part of the unit entry it has "flamer (space marine only)". The sergeant has a separate stat line to the ordinary space marines in the squad so only the marines, and not the sergeant, have flamers. The sergeant has a combat blade/chain sword instead with the option to take a bolter or combi weapon etc. in addition to his normal wargear. If he had a flamer too, it would be pointless having the option to equip him with a combi weapon.

Ed