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I am very happy someone started this project!

Deadzone is gaining popularity in my gaming circuit and I have seen mention of wanting to use 40k models!

Thanks for the hard work.

In my mind space marines need not only to be hard to kill but they need some kind of X factor so their dead Killy.

I'm going to have a go at the following over the next few days/weekend.

1 melee vet srg
4+ 3+ 4+ 2 2-2
Tough, discipline, tactician, brawler, "angel of death"

Bolt p range 3 ap1
Chain sword F ap1

2 tactical marines
4+ 5+ 4+ 2 1-1
Tough, discipline, "angel of death"

Bolter range 5 AP1

Angel of death- either gets a free short action, or +1 dice to shoot or fight each activation.

Effectively a tac marine costs 20pts and the vet srg costs 30. On paper this satisfies my need for space marines to be as close to what I see them in the fluff;
tough- needing crazy amounts of small arms fire to bring down, anti tank or luck).
Lethal - marines can punch through people! And can make every shot count
Fast and agile - how many marine books don't have a line like the following "how can something so big move so fast"

I was tempted to move survival to 3+ instead of tough, and give bolters single shot but I think this set up would balance better and sticks with what was discussed earlier in this thread. Also shots hitting your cover or a third as many mini rockets, which would make you get your head down more?

That seems more like how space marines would roll. I just wonder if you can play a 3 body list even when they're that potent. The mission cards would have to be pretty forgiving, probably mostly focused on kills or such that you win by securing only 2 objectives. I also worry that if you get caught flat footed with no steadfast/courage style cards you will end up suppressed all game while your opponent uses his superior numbers to sweep their own objectives.

I still agree that the general power level seems to be what the fluff would say they can do.

 GrimDork wrote:
That seems more like how space marines would roll. I just wonder if you can play a 3 body list even when they're that potent. The mission cards would have to be pretty forgiving, probably mostly focused on kills or such that you win by securing only 2 objectives. I also worry that if you get caught flat footed with no steadfast/courage style cards you will end up suppressed all game while your opponent uses his superior numbers to sweep their own objectives.

I still agree that the general power level seems to be what the fluff would say they can do.

Yea my enforcer list is going to aim for suppression, srg, burst laser, sniper and 3 enforcers. And a couple of ammo counters.

Withe the free action it does mean that the marines could get up from suppressed in 1 activation with a short action left, but this could seriously neuter angel of death.

I have a feeling that ultimately the only way to get a marine into deadzone would be as the "teraton" of an inquisitor warband, Or maybe a merc. (A fallen, A alpha legion infiltrator etc)

Yeah if we want them to be *that* badass but still viable for objectives...

Maybe there's something to upping the points limit and devising special scenarios. Maybe the enemy gets half again as many points but comes in waves. Or something.

Maybe mars attacks will give us some good scenario templates.

just be careful with the superpowered space marines, it gets to be a slippery slope when you get into other armies with space marine tier things. Just be aware of it and hopefully we can avoid suddenly everything is absurd point costs and superstrong the regular deadzone stuff can't compete.

^A valid point for sure, though I'm honestly more worried for the super strong units not being able to compete with regular deadzone the way the rules are written. If you only get three space marines, they're probably going to lose by virtue of being permanently pinned down from BA.

But like you say, when that doesn't happen they'll probably steam roll things which won't be fun for the other side either.

Game 1 vs enforcers

As mentioned earlier 1vet srg and 2 tactical marines vs enforcer, srg, burst laser, sniper and 3 troopers

Kill objectives
Marines win
Marines being used cautiously always attempting to shoot.
Only 1 kill in the entire game, enforcer trooper trying to help a enforcer srg power fist the vet srg
marines pinned most turns. Angel of death mainly used to allow marines to stand.
Use of distraction card to nerf the vet srg in the open on the first turn no enforcers in position to take advantage, but turned the biggest threat useless for a quarter of the game.
Sniper wasn't able to take high ground spent the rest of the game trying to kill one marine when it got up before it was suppressed again. Without the free action and some courage cards marines wouldn't have done anything.
Enforcer srg charged a suppressed Vet srg on the 2nd round but I whiffed badly. Enforcer trooper moved in to help the srg but died on his own activation in round 3.

Below average dice rolling by both of us in this game.
Marines as they are now are hard to crack but can be easily managed with firestorm + support.

I haven't played yet but I'm wipping up card for Chaos and Sisters of Battle. SoBs will be easy as they won't have Tough and will be pretty analogous to non-jet pack Enforcers with shorter but AP1 weapons.

My Chaos List will have a Noise Marine or two and then a bunch of cultists.
Sisters of Battle will be Sister Superior, Sister Hospitalier, a few Battle Sisters, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Storm Bolter.

I still need to polish up the points and stats for now. My CSM were going on the previous ideas around x-mas. I like your take on it JoeRugby but I think Angel of Death does too much and boosts their cost too much. I'm basing them off of Forge Fathers for the most part and I'm sitting at about 17-18 point base for a CSM with:
4+ 5+ 4+ 2 2-2
Overwatch: Any Short Action
Tough
AP1 CHainsword
R6 AP1 Bolter.

Thinking of making survival 4+ to represent fearless? They also have mutation cards but the rule "Mutant" seems a bit pointless as their specific deck should be able to affect any unit in the Chaos army. The 2-2 command value is also to represent how a 1000-year-old soldier should be able to lead a bunch of rabble in a small skirmish relatively well.

Noise Marines gain Agile and their gun gains Irresistible (or Knockback?), and Limited Range (as sound dissipates easier than a bullet) and get their points upped by 4 from base (21-22)

Cultists are 5+ 6+ 6+ 1 1-1 and either have an Autogun which is a mere R6 or a pistol R3 and gain fight 5+. and have a cost of 4 points. Slaaneshi Cultists gain Agile and cost 6 each.

SoB rules will come later.

I think most things in the plague deck are mutants too. Or possibly all, but if that *is* the case, then might we assume it was done as a blanket rule to cover mercs not getting mutations?

Ahh, forgot about Mercs.

All Chaos units get the "Mutant" special rule then.

Only got two games in today wanted to get another plague game in with, me as plague but the pub was calling.

Game 2 vs enforcers
Same as before but with enforcer missile launcher instead of burst laser.
Marines assassinate mission
Enforcer hold mission
Marines win 11 vps vs 5

More aggressive marines, who get very lucky with battle cards and counter pick ups.

Tac Marine bob gets the 7vp kill on the enforcer srg on round 3. enforcers make a mistake moving from and straight into bobs gun sights.

Enforcer missile launcher kills bob on round 4, only 2 more successes than bob but I'm using the experimental irresistible rule.

Marines are very lucky with survival rolls against blaze away.

Round 1 Enforcer sniper gets a free move from srg command action, and move card to get into position on higher level and able to make a clear shot on marine bob. Only rolls 2 successes so bounces.

Vet srg does the following;
round 3 frag grenades 3 enforcer troopers trying to flank tac marine Tito, and charges enforce sniper and rips him to pieces.
Round 4 charges and kills an enforcer trooper, free moves an injures another.
Round 5 after the injured enforcer trooper makes a successful breakout ignores this one and goes for another that's in the square next to the missile launcher. Charges kills the trooper with doubles, free move kills the missile launcher.
The end.

Game 3 vs plague
Plague, stage 1, 2x stage2s, 5x dogs, 2x Hmg

Marines assassinate mission
Plague kill frenzy mission

Marines win
Plague play pretty badly and are guilty of leaving too many units out in the open in their rush to get into a fight. And forgetting how manuverable the marines are.

Nothing in the game goes off for the plague, deployment goes against them with a 5 cube no mans land to cross

A stage 2 gets to grips with marine Tito but whiffed on his fight check, Tito then breaks off misses a pot shot but the stage 2 gets a distracted card played on him is left standing in the open to be killed the next round.

Both Hmgs only manage to suppress one marine and despite both finding frag grenades both miss and only pin the vet Srg for one turn.

Vet srg kills 2dogs, Hmg and an injured stage 2
Marine Bob gets another assassination nailing the stage 1, and 2 suppressed dogs with blaze away
Marine Tito kills a dog, and a stage 2 out in the open after breaking out of a fight with it.

Tac marine effectively becomes a sniper with angel of death.

Because we didn't get vet srg vs stage 1
We decided to play out that combat. Both are enraged and first round vet srg is moving into fight. where something happened is below.

Round 4
Srg - 5 successes
Stage1 - 2 successes
Stage 1 injured
Srg bounces with his free attack.

Round 6
Stage1 2 successes
Srg 6 successes
Stage 1 dead

Stage 1 just wasn't able to get more than +1 success

I'm going to leave the marine testing/developing now until I see what the enforcer peacekeeper rules are going to be.

Angel of death hasn't been overpowering in these games (and has added a lot to a 3 fig game) so for me that is a keeper.

I think maybe tough is just too much for your average marine (save it .for your plague marine or iron hands) Maybe increase survival to 3+ to make them tougher than enforcers but potentially easier to take out.

I still think that the marine will be better as a deathwatch attachment to an inquisitor warband with a different card for wolf, fists, surf etc.

actually going back and looking at your rules, joe, and i personally think they're too powerful as you present them.
Like, i don't know. angel of death sets off all sorts of alarm bells in my head, and the vet sarge is a little too scary. but whatever. I'm not playing games and not likely to actually play any. I can just run numbers in my head.

However it's great you're playing games and having fun.

I do have to agree somewhat, if you need to write in a special rule to make a team viable, it may be better in the long run to do some more theory work. I also agree and am jealous of your getting to play games

pixel_kitty wrote:actually going back and looking at your rules, joe, and i personally think they're too powerful as you present them.
Like, i don't know. angel of death sets off all sorts of alarm bells in my head, and the vet sarge is a little too scary. but whatever. I'm not playing games and not likely to actually play any. I can just run numbers in my head.

However it's great you're playing games and having fun.

GrimDork wrote:I do have to agree somewhat, if you need to write in a special rule to make a team viable, it may be better in the long run to do some more theory work. I also agree and am jealous of your getting to play games

Making up rules is fun

The angel of death(AOD) ability does sound scary and I was worried about it as it was the only way I could think of of translating my view of space marines into the game, but in game it really hasn't been and potentially the most over powered thing has been giving them all tough.

With AOD you have to make a tactical choice do I use the free action this turn or do I make one shoot or fight action a little better. If you aim shoot and get + 1 from AOD your hitting like a 13 point sniper with shorter range (bare in mind that the tac marines only got 1 kill till that last game) but if you do this your potentially risking not getting the kill and being overwhelmed.
The most that AOD has been used for is to get up from suppressed in the one turn without this marines wouldn't be at all viable as they would just get suppressed every other turn allowed to get up so your sniper/specialist can take a shot then suppressed again.
Your unlikely to ever waste most of your srg's activation on the command ability and you lose out on the free actions from this.

The vet SRG is a monster (as in my mind he should be, I'm thinking inquisitor marine monster here) but at 30 points is more expensive than the plague teraton, stage 1, 3 stage 2s and 2 plague swarms who are also CC monsters, the +1 dice from AOD helps but remember that the plague and enforcers will be bringing friends to the fight where as your potentially not going to be able to spare them. Me and my opponent were both guilty of not managing the srg we'll enough and giving him the option to play chequers in a fight and take out a couple of guys.

As mentioned earlier I'll put these ideas on the shelf until the peace keeper rules are done and I'll probably use these As a base for the marines maybe with just bolters and AOD.

I,ll have a look at the guard bits that have been done on here next and offer my opinion on them. don't worry I'm not going to make up any rules for them.

heh, yeah inquisitor was all kinds of cracked, especially the space marines and assassins. like i think the space marines could unarmed punch harder than a plasma. and the assassins were effectively unassailable.

As I keep mulling through the rules I find myself able to justify Chaos Warbands much better than regular Space Marines. Having a CSM or two with a rabble of cultists makes sense (especially when you look at FFG's Black Crusade). I think a Space Marine army could work if it relied on Scouts and a regular marine or two instead of only marines.

I know its a bit beyond the scope of the getting things to work but trying to fluff out the battles has been fun and has helped in trying to find the appropriate stats and what not. I know fluff CSM are infinitely stronger than their tabletop counterparts in regular 40k. I could see a squad of cultists trying to corrupt a town or a squad of Firewarriors trying to seize an outpost or Eldar trying to recover spirit stones or whatever. A rational for a bunch of Space Marines (let alone Terminators) showing up to such a small fry event is quite difficult. Scouts could make sense. A group of Guardsman with a Space Marine or two helping out would make sense as well. The only way I could justify having 5-10 Space Marines alone on the table would be if there was more at stake AND huge odds against them and as such would need a full rehaul of certain things (mission cards especially as VPs can't manage with such large games) to deal with them.

Also, for the record, my Chaos stats have worked well against Plague and Enforcer models in small scenarios. Armour 2 + Toughness is still easily cracked by a sniper rifle, exploding dice, and/or AP1 or 2 attacks. The Headshot card can take them out well as well if you're lined up. The issue is that if they can stay in hiding/cover then they're stupidly durable (but then again, so are most high cost units). With only 1 or 2 on the field and costing 22 points, however, they are no better than a Stage 1 (who will wreck them in melee, is harder to kill due to Really Tough, and has Strategist and 3-3 and more), or the 26 point Plague Teraton which has A2 and Really Tough with no range. So far the Chaos faction is pretty good for killing but not great for survival or objective grabbing as cultists drop like flies and are easily suppressed (all of which is fluffy).

I am super excited to find this thread! How can I contribute? I assume you don't want me to just go altering the spreadsheets in the article.

Inquisitor_Eisenhorn wrote:
I am super excited to find this thread! How can I contribute? I assume you don't want me to just go altering the spreadsheets in the article.

Write up and playtest rules! I know most, if not all, of us have busy lives (I'm in University right now and have almost no free time). This project is mostly just to port 40k stuff to Deadzone so if you can try out some units, try some decks, etc. It would be great.

The biggest hurdle right now is defining Marines but I think the Armour 2 and Tough and costing ~20 is the current best template.

Alternately, try out any faction you have! Just try to make it fit both in terms of fluff and crunch. They need to feel like the 40k lore describes them.


Also, they released info on 100 point games which make 5 marine kill teams reasonable and feels fluffy.

Have you guys been keeping up with Jake's blog? Do you think the Code 13 (100 pt games with 13 vp to win) would help you better balance the marine lists?

 GrimDork wrote:
Have you guys been keeping up with Jake's blog? Do you think the Code 13 (100 pt games with 13 vp to win) would help you better balance the marine lists?

Short Answer: Yes.

Long Answer: Yes because it is fluffed out as an event that MUST be done while potentially not even being 100% achievable. That's the sort of thing Space Marines were made for. Having a 4-5 man Space Marine team thrown in at that level makes a lot of sense (as opposed to throwing them against 70 points of scavenging rebels or a small Tau pathfinder team. Both of which are more Imperial Guard/Stormtrooper problems).


Also, Jake released some beta rules on Sergeant Howlett who acts similar to a Khornate Marine might. Here's his stats (you can also get them of the Quirkworthy site) Mercs for Q v3.docx

Sergeant Howlett (17U)
Works For: Enforcers

Command 2/1
Shoot 5+
Fight 4+
Survive 3+
Armour 2
Overwatch Move

Tough, Brawler, Rampage

Claws Range F AP2
Pistol Range 3 Single Shot
Jump Pack

With Armour 2, Tough, high Fight and the AP2 CCW, it seems to reinforce that our SM statline so far is balanced. (Sorry to keep bringing this up, it just seems to be the hardest faction to get the toughness right for. IG, Eldar, Tau, etc. seem much easier as they aren't as sturdy in the fluff.)

Hey, just a quick heads-up, but have any of you gotten battle scribe? I'm putting my 40k lists in there for easy list building for testing, and then also later to share when I'm happy with them. Anyone else got that yet? You all should!

I love battlescribe. I used to use Army Builder but I find I like BS better, especially since it's on my phone.

I may have to look into some Dark Eldar rules... at least wyches. I don't think deadzone has anything that's physically weak enough that also has high skill. I'm in the mood to hock all of my DE stuff, except my old metal wyches, mandrakes, a few Incubi (asdrubael's guards with the coats) and so on. Would motivate me to paint them if I had a game to use them in

Thanks for a great read! Did work ob this project die out completely? I'd love to help, but I'm sadly unable to.

Ahh hell, I think I forgot to mention why i stopped working on this. Health issues worsening around January screwed me over pretty badly. I'm still very keen on continuing this, and now that the issues are improving a bit I hope to get back into it slowly. The release of more rules in Incursion should help bring more diversity to what we can do without needing to make more rules which it would be better to avoid. Deadzone is amazing partly due to it's speed and simplicity without sacrificing tactical depth so it's important to keep that as much as possible.

If someone wants to take over, they can take the helm and I'll help how I can, if not I'll resume plugging away and would still happily accept any input. I still think Deadzone has what it takes to make an excellent skirmish 40k game and the release of 7th has only made it more important to get a fun 40k game happening imo. I'm glad you enjoyed what was done already, if you can test anything or offer any input or advice that'd be great too!

With the beta of deadzone new rules due to be available soon, Anyone still interested in setting factions list to play dz with 40k minis ?

I have been setting up a conversion tool for getting 40k stats and special rules / equipment into dz stats along with custom stat cards.

I am tinkering with setting up a full faction list, just cant choose which to go first : necrons seem to be a good one, and after that dark eldars, along with taking into account the new dz rules when they come out.

Any 40k army you would like to see available for dz ?