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2015/03/03 20:01:23
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
d-usa wrote: Does this have any effect on his military retirement?
I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is that federal benefits are pretty hard to lose once you have retired. Google says it's only for stuff like treason, espionage, etc; and even then he pleaded out to a misdemeanor, not a felony.
I imagine any conviction could lose him his security clearance though, which would have pretty hard consequences for someone who now consults in a very specific field the way he does.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/03 20:05:44
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2015/03/04 15:24:28
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
d-usa wrote: Does this have any effect on his military retirement?
I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is that federal benefits are pretty hard to lose once you have retired. Google says it's only for stuff like treason, espionage, etc; and even then he pleaded out to a misdemeanor, not a felony.
I imagine any conviction could lose him his security clearance though, which would have pretty hard consequences for someone who now consults in a very specific field the way he does.
If this was just about anyone else, he would lose his clearance. Stuff at his level, has a pretty high chance of being swept under a rug, due to his status though. It happens all the time, sadly.
Ouze wrote: 2 months of probation and a fine do seem a little light.
RHIP
Honestly, the cost of a trial if it only would have gotten him a few months prison time would have been a waste. And who knows what embarrassing stuff (not just for Petraeus) would have come out.
If this was just about anyone else, he would lose his clearance. Stuff at his level, has a pretty high chance of being swept under a rug, due to his status though. It happens all the time, sadly.
I doubt he holds anything close to the clearance he had when he was still a gov't employee.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/04 16:24:07
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/03/04 20:20:07
Subject: Re:Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Ouze wrote: 2 months of probation and a fine do seem a little light.
RHIP
Honestly, the cost of a trial if it only would have gotten him a few months prison time would have been a waste. And who knows what embarrassing stuff (not just for Petraeus) would have come out.
If this was just about anyone else, he would lose his clearance. Stuff at his level, has a pretty high chance of being swept under a rug, due to his status though. It happens all the time, sadly.
I doubt he holds anything close to the clearance he had when he was still a gov't employee.
Depending on what he has been doing for the White House, it's still possible he still holds the same level of clearance. However, he would of course not have the same ability to pretty much have carte blanch access to any information he wants like would have at those former positions.
Ouze wrote: 2 months of probation and a fine do seem a little light.
Agreed.
To be fair, he already did suffer through this:
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2015/03/04 20:56:05
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
One hammered by UCMJ and behind bars in a Federal pen to undergo sex change therapy or something paid for by the American tax payers (was removed from military confinement)
One in Russia courtesy of Putin and more likely employed by the KGB..eerrr GRU(?)
Political connection eh
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2015/04/23 21:03:26
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Maybe that explains Petraeus's light sentence? If he thought they would give him more, he would have defected to Russia like Snowden, who knew he'd never get a sweet deal like the General.
Manchu wrote: Maybe that explains Petraeus's light sentence? If he thought they would give him more, he would have defected to Russia like Snowden, who knew he'd never get a sweet deal like the General.
Could a Judge have ordered him put on a "No Fly List" or some such thing because he would be a flight risk?
2015/04/23 21:22:31
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Easy E wrote: I guess Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden didn't have the right political connections.
I don't think the crimes are comparable.
For these types of charges, intent has a lot to do with it.
Releasing info to someone/some agency you KNOW will allow the bad guys to have access to it, and when you state your intent is to hurt the government, and stealing the info with the intent to do so is a lot different from showing personal notes to a biographer who had a clearance but no 'need to know' who was not going to further disseminate the info.
Damage done to security interests also comes into play during sentencing. And again, the TONS of stuff Snowden and Manning stole and passed on are far more damaging that what Petraeus did, his crap never went further than his mistress.
But if you REALLY want to go with 'political connections' being the defining difference, feel free.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/23 21:28:26
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/04/24 01:17:27
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Different Spanks for Different Ranks. Anyone claiming he didn't get off light because he was a 4-star general and director of the CIA who knew where skeletons were buried is deluding themselves. This is a travesty. How am I supposed to tell a PFC/SPC to straighten up and fly right when Generals McChrystal, Petraeus, and Sinclair all get off with slaps on the wrist? It's disgraceful and I'm surprised at some of the people defending this sentence.
I get that Petraeus's leaks didn't lead to a far reaching and damaging security breach, but just for once the generals who lecture me and other soldiers/sailors/marines constantly on UCMJ and "zero-tolerance" and honor and integrity should be made to pay when they are shown to possess none of those things.
2015/04/24 01:38:43
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
CptJake wrote: Just out of curiosity, what crime did McCrystal commit?
Arguably, Article 88 - Contempt towards Officials. Granted, I think his alleged transgressions are the least of the three I named and thus he was allowed to retire. However, tell me that someone accused of Sinclair's or Petraeus's crimes but in the rank of E4/5 instead of O7/9 wouldn't be spending time making big rocks into small rocks.
EDIT Article 134 - the catch all...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/24 02:20:34
2015/04/24 03:02:59
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus to face charges for mishandling classified information
Orlanth wrote: Actually the mistress receiving secrets from a high ranking official via the bedroom is a classic move of a professional intelligence organisation. With many many examples.
I would be 0% surprised if the mistress was actively working for the KGB, Chinese Intelligence or Mossad at first guess. Or perhaps for one of the European nations.
I think it is important that you respond more than three months after the initial posting when I have no idea what was originally talked about. Much good. So wow.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2015/04/24 03:45:19
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Ahtman wrote: I think it is important that you respond more than three months after the initial posting when I have no idea what was originally talked about. Much good. So wow.
Sounds like proper governmental SOGs to me.
2015/04/24 10:35:29
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Easy E wrote: I guess Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden didn't have the right political connections.
Agreed. This has been a total whitewash.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sgt_Scruffy wrote: Different Spanks for Different Ranks. Anyone claiming he didn't get off light because he was a 4-star general and director of the CIA who knew where skeletons were buried is deluding themselves. This is a travesty. How am I supposed to tell a PFC/SPC to straighten up and fly right when Generals McChrystal, Petraeus, and Sinclair all get off with slaps on the wrist? It's disgraceful and I'm surprised at some of the people defending this sentence.
I get that Petraeus's leaks didn't lead to a far reaching and damaging security breach, but just for once the generals who lecture me and other soldiers/sailors/marines constantly on UCMJ and "zero-tolerance" and honor and integrity should be made to pay when they are shown to possess none of those things.
You can bet your last dollar that Private Joe from Alabama would have been looking at 20-30 if he had done something similar to Petraeus.
Personally, I don't have a lot of faith in US military justice. Wipe out a village in Vietnam, you get a Presidential pardon, mistreat prisoners in Iraq, you get a slap off the wrist.
They should have made an example of him, because it sends out the wrong message to the lower ranks.
The USA is better than this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/24 10:39:56
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/04/24 10:40:39
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Easy E wrote: I guess Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden didn't have the right political connections.
Agreed. This has been a total whitewash.
I would love to see something (besides emotion) comparing each. From what they did, why they did it, and the damage.
I think if you could remain even the tiniest bit objective, you would be forced to admit what Petraeus did in no way resembles the other cases.
I'm not asking for him to be treated like a murderer, but it's a high profile case, and in my view, every time the US has dealt with these types of high profile cases in recent years, politics seems to trump justice. Just my view.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/04/24 11:27:46
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Easy E wrote: I guess Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden didn't have the right political connections.
Agreed. This has been a total whitewash.
I would love to see something (besides emotion) comparing each. From what they did, why they did it, and the damage.
I think if you could remain even the tiniest bit objective, you would be forced to admit what Petraeus did in no way resembles the other cases.
I'm not asking for him to be treated like a murderer, but it's a high profile case, and in my view, every time the US has dealt with these types of high profile cases in recent years, politics seems to trump justice. Just my view.
Great, so explain what you know about his crime, to include what he was charged with, and the severity of the damage and why you don't think the sentence fits.
Because all I'm seeing is hyperbole about 'Political Connections' and 'Rank' and comparing the case to Manning and Snowden but without ACTUALLY comparing them. But no actual facts of the case.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In one case you have a competent systems admin guy who decides to steal a ton of info and take it to our enemies. In fact, he applied for the position he was in with intent to steal classified info.
In another you have a kid who was a gakky soldier (leadership failed him, he should have been kicked out way before he did what he did) who again steals a ton of classified data and passes it on to an organization he knows will publish it in such a way that the bad guys will see it. All because he 'had issues'.
In the other case you have a guy who has several decades of good service to his country who cheats on his wife, and lets the hoe is cheating with (who happens to also be his biographer and does have a clearance) see his personal notes (which are indeed classified). The info goes nowhere else.
Do you really think these cases SHOULD be treated the same?
If you do, I think the political views you hold are blinding you.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/24 11:43:41
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/04/24 11:48:40
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
Easy E wrote: I guess Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden didn't have the right political connections.
Agreed. This has been a total whitewash.
I would love to see something (besides emotion) comparing each. From what they did, why they did it, and the damage.
I think if you could remain even the tiniest bit objective, you would be forced to admit what Petraeus did in no way resembles the other cases.
I'm not asking for him to be treated like a murderer, but it's a high profile case, and in my view, every time the US has dealt with these types of high profile cases in recent years, politics seems to trump justice. Just my view.
Great, so explain what you know about his crime, to include what he was charged with, and the severity of the damage and why you don't think the sentence fits.
Because all I'm seeing is hyperbole about 'Political Connections' and 'Rank' and comparing the case to Manning and Snowden but without ACTUALLY comparing them. But no actual facts of the case.
With all due respect CptJake, you cannot be so naïve to think that a former CIA director and 4 star general, will receive the same treatment as Private Joe from Alabama for similar crimes.
He's walking away because a man in his position knows where the bodies are buried, and knows stuff that will embarrass the Obama administration.
Obama does not need this headache and it's the easiest thing in the world for POTUS to give him a slap off the wrist, and sweep it under the carpet.
Good politics from Obama, but bad for justice.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/04/24 14:54:11
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
I would argue that Snowden and Manning were not trying to hurt anyone, instead they were trying to educate the public about what is being done in their name under a shadow of secrecy.
If you are so set on intent CPTJake, then I think you need to rethink your own argument. The Iintent was to help the public and the electorate by Manning and Snowden. In that regard, they succeeded, but at the cost of the military and troops potentially.
The General's intent was even less noble. He wanted to get his biography written. Possibly to share it with the electorate and public to help them make better decisions. However, I'm sur ethe moeny we would make helped too.
So, I would avoid adding intent into the discussion because it only undermines your argument. Besides, intent is never really known as Manning, Snowden, and Petraeaus are the only sources of truth on the subject, and they clearly have a bias.
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2015/04/24 15:36:13
Subject: Retired General David Petraeus pleads guilty to charges of mishandling classified information
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